Lauren Davidson

Andrew (00:10):

Welcome to The Point. My name is Andrew Paul, and today, we're going to listen to an interview I took from a dear friend, Lauren Davidson. Lauren is a lovely singer and songwriter, and we've worked together for a long time. This is Lauren.

Andrew (00:28):

So, Lauren.

Lauren (00:29):

So, Andy, Andrew. What do you want me to call you?

Andrew (00:33):

You can call me whatever you want! You can call me Andy, Andrew. Call me-

Lauren (00:36):

Okay.

Andrew (00:38):

You're one of those friends that I don't prescribe a preferred name to.

Lauren (00:42):

Unless I ... on stage.

Andrew (00:46):

Stage is one thing, but amongst friends, I know people that call me Andy, Andrew, Neesley, Nees, Drew. And it's usually like I can pick up what kind of friend you are by what name you use, because there's people that I've known for 30 years that call me Nees. But if I've known you for five minutes and you call me Nees, I'm like, "Who is this fool?"

Andrew (01:11):

But you can call me whatever you want. We're those kind of friends.

Lauren (01:15):

Perfect.

Andrew (01:16):

So, you've done quite a bit of these kinds of interviews either for your own or for other people and other podcasts. You're all over when it comes to social media. What do you do to keep it fresh with these things?

Lauren (01:32):

I try not to really script what I'm going to say, unless someone is like, "Oh, do you have talking points? You release new music?" Obviously, there's something special you're coming on to promote. But most of the time, I'm just like, "Yeah, I want to do it. What time?" ... expectations before I get into the space with someone so that I can have real organic conversations.

Lauren (01:55):

Even for Urban Country Jam, I have a list of interview questions like in case we grow a little bit stale. But my goal is to have artist-to-artist conversations and if somebody says something that sparks an idea or a conversation, then I go with it and kind of see where that takes us as opposed to it being so by the book.

Lauren (02:17):

And it's more fun for me on both ... that and I think it keeps it more interesting and exciting and it doesn't get stale that way too.

Andrew (02:26):

You mentioned Urban Country Jam. How many years have you been doing Urban Country Jam?

Lauren (02:31):

It hasn't even been a year yet. One year ... in a couple of weeks so February, I think it was 22nd we did ... It's right here, I could even look at it. February 22nd, I believe, at the Cutting Room, was the first show, the only live show because right after the pandemic hit and then we moved into the virtual space ... to think we only had one show and that it's already coming up to a year and that it's only been a year because it feels like it's been so much longer.

Andrew (03:00):

Right, because I think from all of the social media response and announcements I've seen, it feels like it's been ... I mean, the name lends itself as something that feels like it's been institutional for a while, which is a great pick, by the way. But it really does feel like it's been going on for a long time.

Andrew (03:18):

You don't just do one of those a year, do you?

Lauren (03:24):

There wasn't an actual goal of is it going to be once a year? Is it going to be twice a year? It was just kind of something that we were kind of take steps with and grow it and see how we could grow the name and the brand, and eventually like a full-fledged festival, like a big festival.

Lauren (03:43):

But since at this level, it was just featuring emerging artists like myself and other artists at that level. I think the main idea was maybe to do four times a year, like once a quarter. You don't want to get stale ... you want them to come out. You want to bring a crowd out. You want to have quality talent. But there wasn't really any hard, set in stone, written in paper, this is what it's going to be, and then everything changed. It was like, "Well, what do we do now?"

Lauren (04:14):

And so, moving it into the virtual space and kind of seeing how people have been responding to it, the goal is to have more than one a year. We've already done one this year for 2021, the next ... month as the anniversary show and then working on maybe every other month, every couple of months, at least virtually until venues reopen.

Andrew (04:39):

Nice. What I think is fantastic about that, you didn't have a concrete production plan so that you could make course corrections. So I feel like what misses in a lot of these events, and if you boil it down even further as to just simple shows of artists is that they have too set in stone view of how they want to approach their shows. And because of that, they lose any consistency that they might have had.

Andrew (05:08):

And what these things that's so important is just being consistent with them like how many ... If you're going to do it once a year, do it once a year and do that for 20 years. If you're going to do it four times a year, do it four times a year for five years. But still consistently putting out content is obviously the name of the game these days and difficult to do on the production scale.

Lauren (05:29):

Of course, I think for me though ... like as an artist that I thought I kind of led with my head instead of reality, I guess so to speak, because I'm a Capricorn. I like plans and lists, and I was like, "I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do this and this," and I learned very, very early on that when you have a plan ... throws a wrench in it every single time. And you have to adapt and you have to go with the flow, and you have to take things in baby steps which I didn't realize until I started doing.

Lauren (05:57):

And so that was definitely something that I took with me into Urban Country Jam because I've been doing this ... independent artists like wearing so many hats and I just know if you have too concrete a plan where they're like set in that stone, you're getting in your own way versus it's good to have a plan and to have dreams to have goal ... be adaptable. I mean, even with the pandemic, who thought that a year later, it's still be like sitting in my freaking apartment and not playing shows and adapting.

Lauren (06:30):

If I was just so set in stone, I wouldn't have released any of the music I would have released. We wouldn't have ... virtual space. I'd be sitting here waiting for things to open up and happen again. That's no way to live either.

Andrew (06:43):

It is also a difference between waiting and patience.

Lauren (06:46):

Yeah, exactly.

Andrew (06:48):

You know what I mean? You can be patient and wait for the right opportunity. Or I should say you can have patience for the right opportunity. But when you start waiting for it to come to you, then obviously you're toast.

Lauren (06:58):

Yeah. I mean, I make every decision for anything that I do. I take all factors into consideration. It's like, "Is this the right time?" Or as opposed to just jumping at every single thing, you have to make smart decisions for yourself, for your personal self, for your art too. And I think that's kind of what you mean with the patience too, but also knowing it's okay to change your mind ... of course, and to change your plan and your opinions. All those things are okay.

Andrew (07:29):

This pandemic really forced us to ... Obviously, we all had to course correct and change our plans.

Lauren (07:35):

Yeah.

Andrew (07:36):

Aside from going virtual with Urban Country Jam, what are some other examples of how you course corrected either personally or professionally during the pandemic?

Lauren (07:47):

Virtual shows specifically are like live streams. I was not one of those people that really did that on ... that feature of social media. Now it's all that I do. And another one was when and how I release music, and even finish music and work on music, and write music and produce it. And it's all been really awesome, but interesting than what it would have been if we weren't in the pandemic.

Lauren (08:15):

Also not relying on other people as much for things and learning new skills so that I could do those things myself.

Andrew (08:21):

That's fantastic.

Lauren (08:22):

Yeah, it's frustrating some days but when you accomplish something, it's like, "Oh, wow. I did that myself."

Andrew (08:29):

Well, that's like another example of trying to maintain the consistency because instead of waiting for these other 12 people, which is a fine and dandy thing when you're-

Lauren (08:38):

Exactly.

Andrew (08:40):

... when we're all working in the same community. But now that we don't have access to that community because of the pandemic, you're required to do these things yourself. You're doing a great job of committing to that consistency and learning new skills. Whereas I know a lot of people have probably been sitting on their butt for nine months and are probably kicking themselves right now.

Lauren (08:57):

Well, thank you. I think they're ... Okay, what do I do? And it's like ... I mean, even with my music when I first started, I have written a batch of songs and had never played on a stage as an artist. And you helped me booked my first gig at Arlene's. So you made that process very easy. I think I was like, "Hey, how do I book a gig in New York?" And you were like, "Oh, where you do want to play?" And I was like, "Arlene's Grocery," and you're like, "Meet so and so."

Lauren (09:24):

And it was very easy for me. But I have never done a show before as an artist with my own music ... together and we threw songs up on a stage to see what worked. I played music and had never released music and I was thinking about that a lot recently because someone asked me in an interview about Nashville, and I was like, "I was making music ... at least a year, and writing with people in New York for at least a year if not longer before I even made my first trip to Nashville."

Lauren (09:55):

And so, I was thinking about that process like I just learned by doing. A pandemic was kind of the same thing. Okay, now you have to ... have to do, and you have learned as you go. I mean, I'm not putting out anything that I don't think represents me and my brand and my music, and all of that. But I can learn through the process as well.

Andrew (10:16):

Yeah. That's been a foundation of my journey during the pandemic. How can I learn from this? What can I take from this? By the way, the whole thing is a fucking tragedy, obviously.

Lauren (10:28):

Yeah, of course.

Andrew (10:29):

We didn't need any of this bullshit, but now that we're here is how can we make the best of all these?

Lauren (10:36):

I mean you have two choices. You can either sit and sulk about it and come to a complete stop or we are fortunate enough to be healthy and to be able to do things even with limitations. And we have to find those silver linings and make the best of that.

Andrew (10:49):

That sounds like a lyric right there.

Lauren (10:52):

[inaudible 00:10:52] called silver linings.

Andrew (10:55):

Dig it, nice. Now that I have a couple of these interviews done, there's been a couple of chestnuts, some advice that I've actually written down or a couple of lyrics that I've written down that people have way of being poetic when the camera is on.

Lauren (11:12):

Well, that's funny. I was actually writing two days ago over Zoom, and we had already come up with the idea and some music and I was just kind of like, "I don't really ... want to say in a poetic way, but this is the situation." And he was like, "Well, that's a lyric right there. What do you mean you don't? Like write that down." I was like, "What did I even say?" Because you don't pay attention when you're just speaking from the heart. You're not overthinking.

Lauren (11:36):

When you sit down to write lyrics, sometimes you're thinking every line, every word, every rhyme and sometimes, that is not good too because you get in your own way that way. We know, we've written a song together, and we were so carefully ... And it was great, but we were so careful of choosing words and picking lines to express what we were trying to say. And then I think towards the end, it was like, "Well, let's leave it and come back to it." And half of the time, we were like, "Oh, that does make sense. That is great."

Lauren (12:07):

And I think some of that's just like not thinking.

Andrew (12:10):

I feel like the general tenor of what we're talking about, ignition. Many times I talked with people of all ages really, not just young people, about ignition failure where they see a goal on the horizon and they don't know to just put that first step together. Like you're talking about the song that we wrote and we did spend a good amount of time crafting a lot of that.

Andrew (12:38):

And at some point, you have to say, "Okay, we'll put that there and then we'll go work on something else on the song." So it doesn't always have to be perfect. And in fact, it doesn't have to be the perfect song either because you have to write 10,000 songs before you're lucky enough maybe to write the perfect song.

Lauren (12:54):

And also music is so subjective like everyone's idea of a perfect ... is different.

Andrew (13:01):

Right. So there really is no perfect song but-

Lauren (13:03):

No.

Andrew (13:04):

... just to get better at the craft, you have to write a fuck ton of songs.

Lauren (13:09):

Yeah, definitely.

Andrew (13:09):

There's just no way around it. How many songs have you written that had never been on a CD?

Lauren (13:14):

So many, and I don't ... much as like a lot of people that I know. People in Nashville who are writing sometimes two times a day, five days a week, that was never me. I've written, I think, maybe 50 songs in 2020 and that's like a lot for me. I mean, it sounds like a lot for me. And other people are like, "I wrote 150 songs this year." I only wrote like a third of what some people are writing, but I definitely have found obviously a lot more time to write this year than any other year ... But most of those, I'm releasing six songs this year.

Lauren (13:54):

Most of those songs won't see the light or won't see light for a while because you never stop writing either and you grow through that. And you grow as life ... and something you write, if it's on the shelf too long, it just doesn't suit you anymore.

Andrew (14:08):

Yeah.

Lauren (14:09):

Even if it was the perfect song at one point in time.

Andrew (14:13):

I went back and listened to some songs I'd written that I was super proud of in the last, let's say, 10 years arbitrarily speaking, 10 years. And when I was done with them at that time, I was like, "Oh, this is the perfect song right now. Holy buckets, I nailed this." And I went back and listened to it the other day and I was like, "Ugh, not ... Ah, I don't know about that song right there."

Lauren (14:35):

I feel like that about all of my early music that I even released, let alone the ones that no one's heard. You're just like, "This is so good." This is what you're feeling in that moment and then you grow up a little bit or you grow in your craft, and you're like, "Oh, what was I thinking?" Or just like, "I've outgrown that. That's not me anymore."

Andrew (14:58):

Yeah, I like the idea of outgrowing things. I have enough data now with writing and with my catalog of writing especially on the computer, all of the stuff that we hoard on, digital files that ... I can go back and look at things I've written 15, 20 years ago. And I can hear sounds that I wasn't ready or I didn't understand yet how to use or how to make. And then I come back to them and I go, "Oh, I know what I was going for there, but my experience wasn't ready to bring it to fruition." You find that you've ever gone back to a tune that you see you thought maybe was shit 10 years ago, but then you realize now that I now have the means to execute that vision?

Lauren (15:37):

Yes. There is one song specific ... I never released and I performed it a few times. And I went back and listened to it and I was like, "This is still something that really resonates with me but I want to rewrite some of it." There were just some lines that no longer suited me now and lines that maybe the way they were written were a little more simple or just not saying things the way I would say them even now.

Lauren (16:07):

But musically, and I guess it was all still there for me. But I would say mostly, when I listened to old things, I'm like, "Oh, what was I ... No, no, no. Moving on. Keep walking." But I mean, not everything I even write right now that I'm like ... It's just sometimes it's what you got to get out of you. Sometimes it's just where the synergy with the person that you're writing with where that takes you and what you're feeling in that moment and come back to it literally the next day and be like, "Ugh." Other days were like, "Oh, this is the best thing in the whole wide world." And that changes too.

Andrew (16:49):

One thing I grapple with when I talked to artists, young and old, experienced and green, is the idea of the romanticism in our process. And by that, I mean, when a song is a hit, then everybody goes, "Oh, I knew that song was a hit the second heard it." Or, "Well, the second I wrote that, I knew that was a hit."

Andrew (17:13):

That all seems to me like an incredible amount of professional-

Lauren (17:18):

It's definitely.

Andrew (17:20):

Do you feel like that? Have you ever had that experience you're like, "I know this is one. Boy, that's it." Or is it, "I'm simply trying to create the best thing." I mean, that's probably a little bit of everything but simply trying to create the best thing and then the masses decide if it's a hit for you.

Lauren (17:35):

Yeah, I think for me, I just am trying to create not even just the best thing but what I feel most connected to because I think as songwriters and artists, we're ... out to bleed for the world. But there's been songs where other people are like, "That's a hit. That's a hit." But like I don't have any hits yet. So it's like what makes a song a hit? Having enough money so that enough people can hear it on the radio.

Lauren (18:01):

But there are songs that are on the radio I think are complete shit. But think about it, if there's money behind a song and you're hearing that song every hour, say, even I start to sing along to it, and you're like, "Oh, that song I can't get out of my head." Actually, it's not a good song or it's not a song that I would normally like if I wasn't hearing it all the time. I can think of a handful of songs right now that I have had this conversation with people in real time.

Lauren (18:32):

It was like, "If this wasn't by this artist with ... label behind it, this song would not be a number one song." They would get laughed at if they got walked into a pub house or I have better songs than that or more well-arranged songs but no one knows who I am. You know what I mean? Like that thing.

Andrew (18:49):

I know who you are Lauren Davidson.

Lauren (18:52):

... you are.

Andrew (18:54):

Shucks.

Lauren (18:55):

Oh, maybe some days.

Andrew (18:57):

Well, shit. One thing that I really enjoy about working with you, speaking of Lauren Davidson, you mentioned earlier your attention to consistency. And I thought about texting you earlier saying like, "Hey, are we on?" And then I was like, "This is Lauren. I don't need to double check with her. She's going to be on point today."

Lauren (19:18):

I'm good, I'm here. I was ready. Yeah, I think consistency is really important but ... like we mentioned earlier and realizing that. But I think that being consistent doesn't necessarily have to align with being the same all the time.

Andrew (19:35):

I write a zillion different kind of songs and grooves throughout the year, it's never the same thing twice. Maybe I'll eventually ferry myself in one direction just for business' sake, but yeah, it goes all over the place.

Lauren (19:47):

I think for me, it's a little bit harder though to allow myself to do that because there's this idea of what I'm supposed to be doing, a country music artist or an urban country artist and what my sound is but this year, I kind of have been throwing it all to the walls and just doing what feels good, which is honestly, so much greatness has come out of that.

Andrew (20:10):

Good for you.

Lauren (20:12):

... I remember my co-writer was like, "This just needed to be more country," and I was like, "No, it needs to be just the best possible thing we can write today. I don't really care about ... We don't need to think about that. Let's just write what we're feeling."

Andrew (20:26):

Good for you.

Lauren (20:28):

A learning process but in a really, really good way.

Andrew (20:31):

I'm trying to live that right now when I'm writing whatever I'm going to release next. I don't even know what the hell that's going to be, but to release the handcuffs of what I think I'm supposed to be. What is that? Who knows that that is?

Lauren (20:49):

Exactly, exactly. I mean, that's the one good thing to come out of this downtime is that we have the time and the freedom and the ability ... previously so busy and caught up in whatever it is we were caught up in, the many things we've been caught up in. It's much harder to break from those things because you're just so used to it and you're ... in the go and you're not really making conscious decisions to just create.

Andrew (21:24):

Right, you're just kind of living gig to gig, like what do I need to do to survive this one?

Lauren (21:28):

Right. I mean, now, I've spent more time in these ... than I ever have. And I want to escape that and I've been able to escape that through like the imagination of creativity and through music.

Andrew (21:40):

That's inspiring. Good for you.

Lauren (21:41):

Yeah, thanks.

Andrew (21:42):

It's not easy.

Lauren (21:44):

Some days, it's not easy for me either.

Andrew (21:45):

Well, you bring up a really great point though is that I actually got into an internet fight with some stranger about this.

Lauren (21:55):

A stranger, oh god.

Andrew (21:57):

Yeah, internet stranger. I mean I said something spicy and then let it go, but my point was that creativity in the muse is kind of bullshit. The people that show up every day and get to work are the ones that write actual hits. It's not waiting to be inspired because that will happen once in a million. Putting in the daily effort to be better writer and better songwriter, better musician is what ... That's what the pros do. It's what we do.

Lauren (22:28):

Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes inspiration comes from in the moment, like how many times is there like, "Oh, I don't want to do this today." Like you said, if I say I'm going to be somewhere at two o'clock, I'm there at two o'clock on the dot. And I have sat down before and be like, "I got nothing," or like, "I'm not really feeling this."

Lauren (22:45):

And next thing you know, you leave more inspired than you came into it because of ... just forcing yourself to work on something that the big picture inspires you. Obviously, we wouldn't be making music if that didn't inspire us. We're inspired by music, by creativity, by the endless possibilities of where that can bring us. But not every day do I ... Sometimes I want to sit in my bed and watch Netflix.

Andrew (23:12):

What are you watching on Netflix right now?

Lauren (23:15):

I just caught up on Shameless). It's not on Netflix but on Showtime. So I'm actually looking for something new. So if you have any recommendations.

Andrew (23:24):

What do we watch lately? I don't watch Netflix until the day is over typically even on the weekends. By the time it's that, I'm thinking about passing out-

Lauren (23:35):

Yeah, I watched a lot of things that I've watched before too because I just like the ... sometimes instead of listening to music all the time. But then it's funny because everything you watched too also has music in it. So I'm curious how much of the music on the TV shows or the movies that I've had in the background have inspired me and I didn't even know it.

Andrew (23:55):

If I looked at my inspiration, I have a note on my phone where I typically put wisps of inspiration and there's so many movie soundtracks on there. I feel like I'm going to write a record one day that's going to be largely cinematic. I think there's a Brian McKnight record like that where he's playing with a string orchestra.

Lauren (24:20):

Oh, that's cool.

Andrew (24:20):

And it's very much like a movie soundtrack, but like I said very dramatic-sounding. But also, I typically pick out the things in movie soundtracks that are a little odd too. There's a lot of Johnny Greenwood from Radiohead. He does some film scoring that's really interesting. But they're also usually from very odd movies.

Andrew (24:43):

I talked cinematically speaking, but they're all from murder movies. Am I going to make a murder album? I don't know.

Lauren (24:50):

Maybe. I think for me, mine have been more like these, I like guilty pleasure for ... I call them like soapy dramas. And so once in a while ... rarely a song will be playing and I'll stop in my tracks and I'll have to find out what that song is. And one of them was on this TV show called The Bold Type that's on Freeform and it was a Sasha Sloan song and I had never heard of ... and it's called Thoughts.

Lauren (25:17):

And it just had this really gorgeous arrangement, really simple, really pretty melody and I paused the TV show and I have to find the song and look up this artist and this girl to kind of see that she has a relatively big pop ... listen to a lot of that music or even to radio really not having a car. And I had never heard of her before. And I was like, "What is this song? Who is this person? What are these lyrics?"

Lauren (25:42):

I sat down and I figured out the chords on the guitar. It was just so beautiful and so simple too.

Andrew (25:47):

What's the song?

Lauren (25:48):

It's called Thoughts by Sasha Sloan.

Andrew (25:51):

I'm going to check that out later too.

Lauren (25:52):

Yeah, it's really pretty.

Andrew (25:54):

I have a couple of Spotify playlists that are public actually, but it contained everything that I'm inspired by basically from what the process you just mentioned. Like I hear something and I'll Shazam it quick and I'll add it to that playlist. And there's some really beautiful music there. But there's a couple of guilty pleasures there too that I'm debating on whether I want people to understand that I get inspired like, do I really want people to think I get inspired by Katy Perry tunes? I don't care. I like Katy Perry tunes.

Lauren (26:24):

I feel like if that was my playlist, there would definitely be like some 80's guilty pleasure on there, definitely some Miley Cyrus. And I don't listen to that stuff on the daily, but we're inspired by everything.

Andrew (26:35):

Totally. I mean, and we should be too. Why throw out inspiration just because of a silly genre label that some junior executive at a major record label came up with. I hear you.

Lauren (26:47):

Yeah, exactly.

Andrew (26:48):

That's good stuff.

Lauren (26:49):

Yes, keep Katy Perry.

Andrew (26:53):

I'll tell you what. One of our records looks like the morning bell too. It has the same orange border.

Lauren (27:00):

She saw that you added her to your playlist and I was like, "Who's this guy?" "Oh, cool music. That's dope." So maybe she did. You never know.

Andrew (27:07):

I'm pretty certain that Katy Perry didn't rip me off.

Lauren (27:11):

It would be fun if she did.

Andrew (27:12):

It would be fun, yeah. I can count on one hand the amount of time somebody that's a little further down the line career-wise as voiced, inspiration from something that I've written. It's touching when they do and it's been like three times in my life and it wasn't Katy Perry.

Lauren (27:29):

I'm one of them.

Andrew (27:30):

Yeah, of course, you are. I'm inspired by writing with you.

Lauren (27:33):

I'm inspired by ... I mean, even I've seen you on stage before so many times, I've ... that's inspiring.

Andrew (27:42):

That photo of you singing with Jesus On The Mainline from Music Hall of Williamsburg pops up on my featured photos every once in a while, it's a nice reminder of that show.

Lauren (27:52):

It's funny actually because I recently joined ... putting one of those videos together that it's like if you add photos and video to the sound, it edits it for you to the beat. And it was like what was one of the first photos in my camera roll. And it's a picture from the ... in the video. And I was like, "Wow, this is one of the first pictures on my camera roll," that was like, what, maybe six years ago at this point.

Andrew (28:21):

At least, yeah. 2014, yeah, that makes sense.

Lauren (28:25):

Yeah, it's so fun.

Andrew (28:26):

Yeah, you were a total pro. I remember calling you that morning of that show being like, "I need you to show up in two hours."

Lauren (28:31):

Yeah. When you called me, it was like nine o'clock in the morning. I think I was like still ... Or 8:30 in the morning, I was like still in bed. But I was like, "Andy is calling. I need to pick this up." And then it was like, "Can you be ..." And I was like, "Yep. That will be best phone call ever. I will be there."

Andrew (28:48):

That was a fun show.

Lauren (28:49):

It's so fun.

Andrew (28:50):

Was Toby playing that show too?

Lauren (28:52):

Yes. Toby was playing in that show. And Sanj was still playing with The Bone Chimes at that time ... And that was the first time that I met those guys and found out that Anthony was really good friends or went to college with my really good friend, Brooke, who you've met before too. And it was just like a whole full circle family moment ... with music because I wasn't an artist yet. I wasn't writing my own songs. I was still kind of living in the theater world and singing with bands on the side.

Lauren (29:24):

It was just so inspiring just being in this back stage area with so many talented musicians. I mean ... It's like 16 talented musicians that you just get to talk to and hang with and vibe with and then share really cool energy with on stage. But then all the other guys on the bill ill too was really cool.

Andrew (29:43):

Yeah, that was a fun show. You mentioned Animal Years. And it was Saladino's birthday recently. And I thought I saw a picture of him with blonde hair on Instagram?

Lauren (29:56):

Really?

Andrew (29:57):

Yeah. He looks good. I said, "Anthony, you're rocking it, man. You look pretty good there, bro."

Lauren (30:04):

... look up his Instagram after this.

Andrew (30:07):

I'll tag it in the comments or whatever in the blog post of this interview.

Lauren (30:09):

That will be hilarious. I mean that was such a long time ago at this point, to think of all the things that both of us have done is kind of crazy.

Andrew (30:23):

I think it's hard to appreciate how long but at the same time how short five years is.

Lauren (30:30):

Yeah.

Andrew (30:31):

In terms of what you want to accomplish, it's not as much time as you think. But also it feels like an eternity but it goes by in a flash, if you know what I mean.

Lauren (30:42):

I mean, I feel like that way specifically about this past year, it's like, "oh, I've been home forever." But also it was like, "I can't believe the year has gone by already ..." And especially this year, it's easier to feel that way when you're doing a lot of things because you're like, "Look at all the things that I did this year, but I can't believe that the year is over already." But it's like, "Look at the four walls." I say that a lot ... at the same walls right now, but I also can't believe like it's almost been a year that I've been home and not playing shows.

Lauren (31:14):

I mean, I played my last gig aside from the little stuff that you and I would do, I played one gig in the summer, one gig a couple of weeks ago. I played my last gig, March 15th.

Andrew (31:27):

Yeah, 2020.

Lauren (31:28):

Yeah.

Andrew (31:29):

I had a good handle on that for quite a while coming to terms with not having shows and trying to make the most of the pandemic in terms of my growth as myself but also as a professional musician. And it slipped just a little bit the other day, where I was angry at myself for not having more tangible things, like you just said, things. More music released, or more songs written. I had to really dig deep to find what I did get out of pandemic and that was the consistency of honing the craft.

Andrew (32:06):

So, it's really easy to overlook the time you put in day in and day out at being a better songwriter or writing a lot of songs if you don't have these [inaudible 00:32:15] things that you can hang on, on your wall like a new album. But there is so much value obviously in that consistency and in that perfection, and we'll someday get back to the albums on the wall and the shows and whatnot. But we really have to give, as creative people, we have to give ourselves so much credit just for the simple fact that we're still here making music.

Lauren (32:40):

Yeah. I mean honestly something must have been ... having that same kind of feeling just the other day. And I think at first, I just got really comfortable with the change. It wasn't easy, obviously. We all had struggles. It's been a really hard year, but just like ... at home, these are the things I can control. These are the things I can do both personally and professionally, not just writing songs but like organizing my apartment or taking care of things that I had put on the backburner for so long.

Lauren (33:16):

The other day that hit me too with playing shows. And I think that's because I had so long, I mean I mentioned earlier like I played a show in New York with my band but had never released music. I had led my career that way, from stage to stage and doing everything ... to get back on the stage and what do you do to do that, booking the shows, planning the shows, routing touring if it comes to that fortunately, and all those things that without that, and now the year is coming, it's like, well ... to that and how do I get back to that.

Lauren (33:50):

It almost feels like I have to start over and start new. The things I knew and the relationships I had might not be the same after this, after a year or more of not giving those things. And it's ... I think shows come back in the way that we're used to them. And something I kind of had to really look inside myself and realign almost to be like, "It's okay. It's not the ..." I missed the stage. I'm not going to pretend that I don't. It's sad, I missed it a lot.

Andrew (34:25):

I wonder what the reentry to that lifestyle is going to do to us because I developed or rediscovered or returned to so many good habits during quarantine that I can't let go of them.

Lauren (34:42):

I mean specifically for me, the staying up late, because there's like no reason to stay up late right now. Even if you're going to like ... or for outdoor dining right now, everything closes early. I can't tell you the last time I was up until two, three o'clock in the morning or like traveling for hours and hours in a car or van, bus, plane, whatever. I mean I'm excited to do it because I missed ... that sleep schedule of like going to bed late and then sleeping in because you need X amount hours of sleep to take care of your body and your health.

Lauren (35:17):

And me specifically, sleep directly impacts my ... It's like I can sing for hours and hours and hours and be fine. But if I'm not sleeping well, that's the first thing to go and that's like the money maker. I don't play an instrument. That is my instrument. So, it's very important and I'm interested to see ... the stamina of it all too of singing for hours or singing on no sleep or singing after traveling, or singing around other people. I don't know, all that is going to be really interesting.

Lauren (35:51):

I still want to do it. I missed it so much, but it is going to be ... is going to offset a lot of the things like finally being able to develop better habits and patterns and the way some people do who work a steady 9:00 to 5:00 job can do ... that we always live a very crazy, chaotic, last minute, up and down lifestyle. There is no consistency. Especially when things are good, there's even less consistency when things are good and you're busy. It's going to be probably ... back into it. I'm not going to lie. I still want to do it, but it's not going to be easy.

Andrew (36:33):

Yeah. Terrified isn't the right word, but I'm concerned. And I hope that we have soft landing in terms of a return to that so that we can plan accordingly.

Lauren (36:46):

Yeah. I think we will. I mean, you see some other states are having live music and concerts but it's still not in the way that it was pre-pandemic. And I think it's going to take a little while to get back there and I think it's going to happen ... I want to be ready for it and figure it out as it happens. But I mean, I definitely missed being on a stage. That's the hardest part of it all. I could still create. I've been able to connect with other people musically.

Lauren (37:16):

But there's something like being on a stage. That's just been gone.

Andrew (37:21):

I can honestly say I have a hard time recalling that feeling. That's pretty strange. That little bit of energy and anxiety and excitement that builds up right before you set foot on stage in front of a thousand people. Am I going to be nervous again to do that?

Lauren (37:41):

I get nervous always obviously, but I think I'm going to be a wreck.

Andrew (37:47):

You are a fucking pro.

Lauren (37:49):

No. I'm going to be. I get nervous. I always get nervous. I have this thing where I bring the band together and we do our cheers or our hands in and then they go out on stage and I take those five minutes for myself. I don't like anyone to be around me. If anyone has been in back stage, I'm like, "This is my moment. I need to get centered," because I get really nervous. I need to shake it out. I need to kind of prepare to get on stage.

Lauren (38:16):

And obviously, most of the time once I get on stage, that flood ... There is something so magical about being on stage with the band and connecting with an audience. It's not nerves, but in the moments before I step on the stage, I am nervous. And I'm afraid that it's not going to flood away ... remember how to do all of these? Do I remember how to play a whole show? Do I remember all of my songs?

Lauren (38:42):

I mean, you don't go into it unprepared. It's not like you're just throwing yourself back on the stage without rehearsing or anything. But I do think that I'm going to be really nervous at least ... something that was almost second nature. And I still got anxious and nervous and excited about. It's only going to be that much more heightened after not doing it for so long.

Andrew (39:00):

If you had every say in how it would go on, what would your dream for show back be? I mean without saying like playing Radio City or The Garden.

Lauren (39:12):

Yeah. I was going to say realistically, I think it would be an Urban Country Jam. So, it would be ... Even if it was the exact same show as the last one we did, like at The Cutting Room ... we sold, what? It was like over 300 tickets. There was such a cool vibe and a cool energy. And all of the artists were so talented. There was such a cool vibe with the other acts on the bill.

Lauren (39:35):

But also for not just being a show, for it being something that I didn't put together and getting to experience the joy of seeing the success of that. It was one of the best nights that I can remember. So, even just having that same exact night recreated which obviously would never happen ... exact same way, but that would be a really awesome first kickback.

Andrew (40:01):

You heard it here first, Urban Country Jam coming later, 2021.

Lauren (40:05):

I don't know. We'll see.

Andrew (40:08):

Hopefully 2021.

Lauren (40:09):

Hopefully.

Andrew (40:10):

2022 would be such ... I was prepared for maybe six months of this.

Lauren (40:17):

No, me too. I think it's going to be a while until like stadium tours can happen. You're seeing artists canceling their tour ... too much uncertainty and there's too much money that goes into those things.

Andrew (40:33):

What opportunities do you think are going to pop up that are new opportunities? What can you imagine is going to be different about the return to normality that wasn't there before? What are some opportunities that we're going to be able to take advantage of that are either brand new, never heard of, or things that were out of our grasp before quarantine but might in our grasp after?

Lauren (41:00):

... but I think this virtual side of things is here to stay. And so even seeing like one of my favorite venues in Nashville, The Listening Room, they're having in-person shows with following COVID ... so whatever capacity is allowed wearing masks until you sit down. But they are also live streaming that shows, so like I in New York could watch the show that's happening in real time in Nashville.

Lauren (41:28):

And I think that that's probably something that's here to ... reach a much bigger audience which obviously like if you're buying tickets for these things that's generating more money. And people, not just in Nashville, can see this performance. I in New York, someone in abroad, in another country ... can tune in if they want. And I think that that is something that's really special and really cool and should be here to stay and most likely will be. I'd be surprised if it's not.

Andrew (42:00):

Have you found yourself participating as an audience member in a lot of streaming shows?

Lauren (42:07):

Not that much, just for like when things fall on times and days. I'm doing a lot even on the backend for ... people don't see. So, it has been kind of time consuming. But I will say at the very beginning of the pandemic, I was. Grace Potter was doing every Monday night and at least ... of her run. I was tuning in every Monday instead of watching TV. I'd sit down with my laptop and watch her stream at 9:00 PM. And I watched like Jagged Little Pill). The Broadway musical did a stream with Alanis ... that I want to support my friends too. There's only so much you could do when you're doing your own things and times clash.

Lauren (43:02):

I think maybe in the future, I will partner ... That's our events. You're not going out the theater. You're buying a virtual ticket and trying to create. You're in a some kind of different space wherever you are in your home. And I kind of was trying ... Urban Country Jam even though it's been free. But it's like, "Well, you can't go out tonight, so if you have a screen, like my friends have a house in New Jersey with a TV screen. And so they watched Urban Country Jamon their screen and made popcorn and made drinks and sat outside and ..."

Lauren (43:39):

But that's all you have, trying to find those times to sit down and do those things and really enjoy them without distraction.

Andrew (43:49):

What do you think are a couple of barriers to entry for our fans to wholeheartedly embrace that model? What are we missing potentially right now?

Lauren (44:03):

I mean, I think we're missing so many things as a whole because I think our attention spans are so short and with social media ... doing something like putting a virtual show on Facebook which I do relatively often, I guess at this point. I feel like not a lot of ... You can see who's there for the long haul and who's there for just ... pop in and pop out. And I think that that's like because of attention spans and people just are used to scrolling.

Lauren (44:36):

So I think we don't enjoy things fully like we should and so I think for me ... are mindful and intentional like you said like, "Do you want to ... What do you want to participate in," and being like, "I'm participating in this tonight and I'm going to sit down and I'm going to buy a ticket and I'm going to watch the whole thing. And I'm going to support this artist because I would if I could go to their show."

Andrew (44:58):

Yeah. I had a feeling like that. Just the other day, Lauren and I used to buy a record of a band we really liked. We have a record player but we only buy the actual vinyl of things that we want to have a piece of and support that artist. And we used to sit down and just listen to that whole record with no phones, put the lights down low and really try to feel the vision for a whole hour.

Andrew (45:34):

And we haven't done it in a while and it just kind of reminded myself of what a job I have to do as a participant in my industry. It's not just going out to shows, it's attending these virtual concerts, buying virtual tickets, putting my money where my mouth is and growing that part of my audience's participation, growing that part of my contribution to the business, not just buying people's records on band camp but turning into their streams. We as artists got to do that, holy buckets.

Lauren (46:08):

Yeah. I mean especially you mentioned streams. We make pennies from streams. You have to stream someone's song but it's like a million times to see any money. But just ... the people in our community, our musical community in any way you can like you mentioned. People ask all the time, "Do you have Venmo when you do these virtual concerts?" I don't need to tipped but the easiest way you can support me is to buy my ... or buy a T-shirt or stream my music or pre-save it because that helps algorithms and lets Spotify know that this is something they need to pay attention to.

Lauren (46:46):

And those things are even ... It doesn't cost anything to pre-save someone's song. But it really ... independent artists. And I think sometimes, people don't realize that.

Andrew (46:57):

Well, because of what you said earlier, most of our decisions on that level are pretty fleeting. If you don't make them in that moment, you might not make them, period.

Lauren (47:05):

Right, exactly.

Andrew (47:06):

It's tough.

Lauren (47:08):

I mean I do the same thing. I'm a culprit of it too. I'm not pointing fingers at people-

Andrew (47:12):

Yeah, me too, absolutely.

Lauren (47:12):

... I do it all the time. I've literally have been like, "Oh, yeah. I'm going to go to that," and like screenshot it and then forgot that I screenshot it and forgot that it was happening and missed it ... obviously other artists any way I can all the time. But I am a culprit too of like the scrolling and not really paying full attention to what's going on. I think it's just what we do now.

Andrew (47:38):

One of the secrets to any fraction of success that Jesus On The Mainline had was procedure of getting physical tickets in the people's hands. Something you could put on the fridge, something you've already paid for, something that if you don't go it, it's going to stare you in the face the next day, that you wasted that money. And I haven't put my finger on what that is virtually yet.

Lauren (48:05):

Yeah, I'm not sure either except for you can do virtual show ... people can buy tickets. So, it'd be the same thing. Just to backtrack, I did the same thing for Urban Country Jam. We have like a limited number of VIP tickets that were hard tickets. And I put them up on my website for people to buy and I mailed ... in advance. And I thought that that was really cool too.

Lauren (48:31):

But also, it was a VIP ticket, so there were some perks to it that some people wanted to partake in. But it really does help because I'm the same way too. If I have a ticket, if I buy a ticket ... at the door, like there's no way I'm not going. You plan for it. You make a plan for it, you're doing it. I mean unless obviously there's an emergency, you're like, "Okay, I bought a ticket, whatever."

Lauren (48:53):

But otherwise, you commit to it. And virtually, it's much harder ... I'm sure you can buy a ticket and I'm seeing artists do it. I've never done it. I've never tried it. I don't know if my fans would do it, but I think that people are trying to come up with ways to have that equivalent like buying a ticket even if it's virtual. I did a Zoom for my EP release where we did that where you bought a ticket as a VIP meet-and-greet acoustic performance. And you buy a ticket and then you get the Zoom link.

Lauren (49:29):

It's funny because some people did purchase ticket ... appreciate and didn't show up. And I felt so bad. I was like, "But they paid me for it. I wanted them to be here to get something," but I think sometimes, life just happens and people forget. Especially virtually too, you're not staring at the ticket. It's in your email ... be checking your email every day or you have to write it down somewhere so you don't forget.

Lauren (49:53):

But at least it's your money that's going to a ticket, so I think you're more inclined to purchase and pay something that you spent your hard-earned money on.

Andrew (50:01):

Yeah. That's a tough nut to crack.

Lauren (50:04):

Yeah, I'm not really sure. But when you figure it out, you let me know.

Andrew (50:08):

I'll let you know.

Lauren (50:09):

No one else. No, I'm just kidding. Spread the love. Let everyone know, but make sure ...

Andrew (50:15):

That's funny that you mentioned that right there, spread the love, is that part of my personality is to remove the romanticism from a lot of what we do because I feel that ... Like you just said, let everybody know because a rising tide raises all boats. If there was some silver bullet that we can get people to always show up for virtual shows like they did for in-person shows, then we should all know what it is and just let the music carry you to greater heights instead of some business trick.

Lauren (50:52):

Absolutely.

Andrew (50:52):

Whereas a lot of times, we, like I said earlier, like to romanticize or other people like to romanticize this industry so that if you came up with a tried and true silver bullet to get people to attend virtual events, a lot of people would like to say, "Whoa, just because they're great."

Lauren (51:09):

Yeah, people do that all the time and honestly, I hate that. I'm always just like I don't really know what I do and sometimes that honestly is the absolute truth. I just am doing things and people are like, "How did you ..." I really don't know. I don't know. And for me, what does that even mean, where you are, like where am I? At home.

Lauren (51:33):

But I just learned by doing it. Honestly, every ... Like you said, there is not necessarily like a tried and true ... different, and something that worked one time doesn't necessarily work the next time. And I don't think that there's any science to it. And I try not to get too caught up in that. I try to make smart decisions and put out good music so that people want to come back and put out a good show.

Lauren (51:54):

Since we're talking about ... people are like, "Oh, I want to go see her again," because it was a great night, a great show of Urban Country Jam. A great event but like I don't know, not everything works the same all the time.

Andrew (52:08):

Well, I think one thing you just kind of touched on is that we don't know. But if we stop, you're fucking done.

Lauren (52:16):

Oh, yeah. You can't stop.

Andrew (52:18):

Well, I mean a lot of people probably had that experience during the first bit of pandemic, and especially when it got worse.

Lauren (52:28):

Yeah. It goes through waves ... especially if you're in other states, I feel like us were just mostly been home aside from indoor dining opening and closing. But we were the last to even get that. But other states have fully opened and then fully shut down. And we're going through waves of it all and that one thing that I ... this whole time is like it's literally one day at a time because you really just don't know.

Andrew (52:47):

Yeah, one day at a time. That's how I felt last night and this morning. And I knew that if I just picked up my horn and got that two-hour set in the morning which is like my brushing my teeth for music, that some of ... Consistency would carry me into the rest of the day. But if you screw that up, you don't put your pants on one leg at a time. When you get out of bed, you're toast. You just got to keep on keeping on.

Lauren (53:20):

I feel like that was exercising too. Do you feel like that with running sometimes where you're like, "Oh, I don't really feel like doing this today. But because ..."?

Andrew (53:26):

Holy buckets, yeah. If I don't run, or if I don't ... Yeah, I have days off because I have to right now.

Lauren (53:34):

Of course, but ...

Andrew (53:36):

But if I don't run on the day that I'm supposed to run, I feel that I'm an asshole. I'm the worst.

Lauren (53:43):

I mean, it's all those things. I mean just like ... like we mentioned earlier, there's been so many times like I don't want to do this today. You got to ease yourself into it, take it slowly but also do it.

Andrew (53:59):

Yeah. It's funny how singularly simple that is. But it can't be the hardest fucking thing.

Lauren (54:07):

But just anything ... Not even just music. Just anything in general, especially like when things are trying, when times are hard.

Andrew (54:17):

Well, that's what separates the pros from the weekend warriors is, can I pull it together? Can I make the doughnuts today?

Lauren (54:27):

Yeah. I think we've had conversations like this before too. That's why I get so upset when people have opportunities given to them that they kind of ... take advantage of because it's like you've been given this awesome opportunity that so many other people would die for and you're kind of just not taking it in for all its worth.

Andrew (54:46):

Yeah, that's tough.

Lauren (54:47):

Yeah.

Andrew (54:49):

Well, Lauren Davidson, you are a beaut. You're a gem. You're a real tulip.

Lauren (54:54):

It's been wonderful chatting with you.

Andrew (54:57):

I've got a zillion more questions I want to hear your opinion on. So, I really hope that we can do this again-

Lauren (55:05):

Yeah, that'd be great.

Andrew (55:07):

... in short order because I really love your writing and your music and your hustle.

Lauren (55:12):

Thank you.