Augie Haas

Andrew (00:10):

Welcome to The Point. My name is Andrew Paul. Today we're going to listen to an interview I took from Augie Haas. Augie is a master trumpet player and educator and he's also a dear friend of mine. This is Augie.

Andrew (00:20)

The third time we're pretending to start this little podcast here. So I met you proper, I suppose to say at Phil's gig?

Augie (00:43):

Phil's CD release party at DROM. Yep.

Andrew (00:46):

Right? Yeah. Were we the only trumpet players there? Was there another guy there? No, it was just us.

Augie (00:54):

I think I was with Garrett Schmidt.

Andrew (00:56):

Oh, Gary. I thought maybe John Raymond might've been there, but I couldn't remember if he was still in town then.

Augie (01:00):

I definitely think he was still living in New York but I don't know if he was at that gig.

Andrew (01:06):

So what's interesting about my relationship with you is that we've been close for... Ever since that day we met, but there's so much about your music history, your music career before I met you that I only peripherally read about on Facebook or social media or whatnot. Most of my trumpet playing friends I've known since at least freshman year of college or around that time, but I really didn't know you until we had become full blown professionals in the city. You'd been here for at least a couple of years at that point, right?

Photo by Shervin Lainez

Augie (01:47):

I think I'd been here for about a year, maybe two before I met you. Yeah. But obviously being both from Wisconsin and have a lot of mutual friends, I definitely knew your name and who you were.

Andrew (02:00):

Oh, you're the guy. You're the one that knew who I was.

Augie (02:05):

Exactly.

Andrew (02:06):

That's funny. You went to high school at... What was it called again?

Augie (02:14):

Pius, Pius XI, go Popes.

Andrew (02:17):

Pius XI. Yeah. I think I had a few friends that went to Pius. But Pius wasn't the brother's school of Divine Savior though, right? That was Marquette.

Augie (02:27):

Correct. Yeah. Because Divine Savior is all girls and Marquette all boys.

Andrew (02:32):

What were you doing in high school then? Who were you studying with and what kind of stuff turned you on?

Augie (02:37):

Yeah. So I feel like in Milwaukee you either do all the youth orchestras, MYSO, Milwaukee Youth Symphony Orchestra.

Andrew (02:45):

You were in MYSO?

Augie (02:46):

Yeah. I actually think I looked up a program and we were in one of them together. But you played violin.

Andrew (02:53):

I did. I played trumpet in my later years, but yeah I started playing violin. We were at the same band together?

Augie (03:01):

I think we were in the Philharmonic together or the Senior Symphony.

Andrew (03:04):

Really?

Augie (03:04):

So I did all of those, and then there was also one at UWM called UWAY.

Andrew (03:08):

See, I was in GMYWE back when it was Greater Milwaukee Youth Wind Esnsemble.

Augie (03:13):

I was thinking, I was like why didn't I do the jazz one? Because it's not like I wasn't into jazz or anything like that. But I never really took lessons at the Conservatory until my senior year of college. I met Mark Davis and went to a couple of clinics and things like that. But at Pius, the band director was Jim Vanduzen, who was really well-respected in the community and an amazing teacher and educator. I was lucky to have him. We did so many festivals and things like that, that I guess that's just the direction I went. I took trumpet lessons with Pat Bacchus it was great.

Andrew (03:53):

Right. Yeah. She taught... Not taught but she directed the brass band my mother played in for a long time.

Augie (03:59):

Yeah. She's way into brass bands and the history of the cornet. That kind of... It was great. She's a great teacher. Love studying with her. So I had just the fundamental trumpet playing coming from that side. And then V, Jim Van Deusen we call V, he took care of everything jazz. He'd bring in great guests artists to the high school. I remember they brought in Maynard my freshman year.

Andrew (04:28):

Really?

Augie (04:28):

Yeah. Maynard did a concert at our high school and that was the first time.

Andrew (04:33):

I think that rings a bell.

Augie (04:34):

Yeah. That was the first time I ever heard trumpet like that. I was like, oh my gosh. We got to meet him afterwards. He was super nice and all those guys. I still have the autograph poster in a storage unit somewhere because I live in New York I don't have room for anything. But he would bring in people like Christopher Dolla who was an amazing saxophone player. Play with Chuck Mangione who he's friends with. There was another trumpet player in Milwaukee. Jeff Pietrangelo, did you know him?

Andrew (05:05):

Oh yeah.

Augie (05:07):

He would bring in him. I never thought Jeff really got the credit that he was due. Unfortunately he's passed since but...

Andrew (05:15):

Yeah.

Augie (05:16):

I mean, he was scary good trumpet player.

Andrew (05:19):

Rick would talk about him when Rick was first... I mean, Rick's not all that much older than we are I guess. Another generation but not too much older. He would talk about Jeff when he was really on his game.

Augie (05:30):

Yeah. Unfortunately he had-

Andrew (05:31):

Back when The Estate was a seedy place.

Augie (05:36):

Yeah. I never really hung too much The Estate which is so weird too because I grew up walking distance to The Estate on the east side.

Andrew (05:43):

Right.

Augie (05:44):

I just... I never got in those circles I guess.

Andrew (05:48):

I mean, it was... My experience there in high school was... I mean, they were letting me in alone to drink. I think I was 17.

Augie (06:01):

That's Wisconsin for you.

Andrew (06:03):

I remember a lot of times being very young and being offered lots of hard drugs before The Estate was cleaned up there.

Augie (06:10):

I also did this group called Kids From Wisconsin as well.

Andrew (06:15):

Right.

Augie (06:16):

That's a whole other corner of Wisconsin that people do. I did it when I was young. I was 15 when I did my first year. I ended up taking a break. Well, I shouldn't say I took a break. I auditioned the next year and didn't get in.

Andrew (06:33):

But they're regretting that now.

Augie (06:35):

So then they called me a few years later and said, would you audition again?

Andrew (06:39):

You said, "no thanks."

Augie (06:42):

Well, I think... I didn't say that but I was like, I think I'm good this year. But then the next year, I had another buddy who was in it or something like that. Someone convinced me to audition and I did it for two more years when I was in college.

Andrew (06:54):

Oh, I actually didn't know they had college members and Kids From Wisconsin. That's great.

Augie (06:59):

Yeah. You can be... The age group is 15 to 20.

Andrew (07:03):

Got you.

Augie (07:03):

And that's where I first met Dan Urness.

Andrew (07:04):

He was just on a group routine this week. I haven't seen him in a long time.

Augie (07:10):

That's when we first met. I feet bad for him because he had to deal with 15 year old Augie. I mean, 36 year old Augie is no walk in the park either so I can only imagine how much worse it was before I knew anything.

Andrew (07:27):

Don't be silly.

Augie (07:29):

Yeah.

Andrew (07:29):

Did you ever come play the jazz festival in Eau Claire with Pius?

Augie (07:32):

We did. Yeah.

Andrew (07:33):

Yeah. I bet I heard about you or heard you or something like that. I remember something about the program at Pius and being at connected. Maybe we came and played at Pious during our jazz tours. I mean, not that I remember anything from those jazz tours because we were likely pretty drunk most of the time. I feel like I remember something about us.

Augie (07:54):

I see a pattern of alcohol and hard drugs in your past Andrew. Do you want to... Can we lay down and talk about this?

Andrew (08:01):

I definitely didn't do any hard drugs at the Jazz Estate or at Pius or during Jazz festival. We got a little... We'd like to have a couple of beers back then.

Augie (08:14):

Yeah.

Andrew (08:14):

Not much has changed.

Photo by Shervin Lainez

Augie (08:15):

I remember the Jazz festival being great. I auditioned to go to college at Eau Claire.

Andrew (08:20):

No shit.

Augie (08:22):

I drove up and I took a class with Mr. Baca. It was great. It just... I guess the only real reason I went to Roosevelt instead of Eau Claire is I just... I think I wanted to be more in a city and I actually oddly enough, I think Roosevelt offered me more money to go to school there. I think I got a full ride. And so I was like oh. And Eau Claire was going to cost me maybe $500 a semester or something like that. I was like, I'll just save myself the 500. It was something stupid. Wasn't because I didn't like it or I didn't want to study with Mr. Baca or anything like that.

Andrew (08:55):

Eau Claire is such a different animal these days. I think about when I was looking at a college, I either wanted to go to MSM or... My dad knew everybody in Eau Claire professionally speaking. My brother went there. It was either go to a state school and save some of the bread or throw my head in and going to a big city. But now these kids... Eau Claire is... Obviously it's such a different animal and obviously we don't need to be in cities anymore. I wonder how kids these days deal with that. So who did you study with that at Roosevelt? What was the experience like in Chicago? I guess I don't know much about Roosevelt. Is it in the city?

Augie (09:38):

Yeah, it's right downtown on Michigan and Congress South loop. I'm trying to think. It's really close to Symphony Hall. Three four blocks away. It was great. Definitely it was like a conservatory mindset. Very pro classical, jazz is cool. I was lucky because I studied with Rob Parton. Excuse me, Rob Parton. He was amazing. He's teaching down... He's actually just got the gig at UNT with Phil.

Andrew (10:12):

Oh great.

Augie (10:12):

Now he's the chair down there. He was great. And then one year... Took one year lessons with Roger Ingram too so...

Andrew (10:22):

That must have been fantastic.

Augie (10:23):

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I took both-

Andrew (10:27):

Is Roosevelt...

Augie (10:29):

Yeah.

Andrew (10:29):

Is Roosevelt a conservatory.

Augie (10:31):

Yeah. It's Chicago College of Performing Arts of Roosevelt University.

Andrew (10:35):

Wow.

Augie (10:36):

Yeah. And actually at the time-

Andrew (10:38):

So no general education credits or any of that bullshit?

Augie (10:40):

Correct. Which is like... I think that was another reason. I fully admit and it's funny coming from the guy who has a doctorate, but I fully admit I am not a school... I'm not an academic in any way shape or form. I think a lot of my teachers is like, oh my god, please don't put him in my class because... I just didn't like going to class.

Andrew (11:04):

Yeah, I hear you.

Augie (11:05):

You're into so many different things and you think you know everything when you're 18 which you don't know anything. I was probably just a huge pain in the ass. But yeah, I only had to take one nonacademic class per semester. One non-music academic class.

Andrew (11:28):

Right. Do you think that benefited you?

Augie (11:35):

Yeah, I do actually. Especially because I wanted to play, you know what I mean?

Andrew (11:40):

Right.

Augie (11:41):

I've seen so many guys that went to non-conservatories and they're like, "Man I got this biology project." I'm like what? Play the trumpet? Why are you doing biology? It is good. I mean the education system was built for a reason. My wife's in education. I have a ton of respect for it. It's just not my... It's not my thing. I get why they do it and it's good. But I think that when you're doing something so specialized, like music, it doesn't always make the most sense.

Andrew (12:16):

Yeah, I had a lot of time, a lot of trouble with my general education classes in Eau Claire but that was being young and dumb and not going to class. I was very capable and I enjoyed a lot of it but again, I was failing classes because I wanted to go do gigs and was just not showing up.

Augie (12:35):

Yeah, you want to play the trumpet because you're 18 and you're like, this is the most amazing thing and I don't have any parental supervision anymore. It's like-

Andrew (12:49):

[inaudible 00:12:49].

Augie (12:50):

I definitely do think the conservatory was a very good call.

Andrew (12:54):

Good for you.

Augie (12:56):

Yeah, the faculty at Roosevelt was amazing. The theory professors were great there I remember. And the whole jazz faculty was pretty incredible. Not only from a playing standpoint but it was really a community of teachers that you know they had your best interest at heart. I felt like that really helped my development as a player and a person.

Andrew (13:26):

What kind of paradigm was taught there? I guess what trunk of the trumpet pedagogy tree did you originally learn from? Even back to Pius, what was Pat Bacchus teaching?

Augie (13:40):

Right. I mean, a lot of Arban's. A ton of Arban's. I would do... I really didn't work on Jazz with Pat. I would just work on fundamental trumpet playing. I did Charlier, I did so much Arbans which is great. A lot of solos and solo repertoire, things like that. Different... The Halsy Stevens, [inaudible 00:14:11] all of those things just to be a good fundamental trumpet player.

Andrew (14:21):

It's a lot of fun to play the basics with somebody that didn't come from a Mr. Adam... From an Eau Claire or a Mr. Adam standpoint because you use a lot of the Arban's a lot differently than I do. In fact, it was just the other day you were talking about playing with an Eau Claire student and we were talking about where we start...

Augie (14:48):

Yeah.

Andrew (14:52):

I had one of those moments like why haven't I ever played eight, nine and 10?

Augie (14:56):

Right.

Andrew (14:57):

Those first couple. And so I took out my book and I was working with a kiddo. He's not quite yet ready to play number 11 on that first bit of Arbans and I thought to myself, maybe we'll play those a couple of before. I mean, I remember Augie talking about that. Why the hell haven't I ever played those?

Photo by Shervin Lainez

Augie (15:20):

Yeah. I mean you can't go wrong. I'm doing a thing now. It's crazy being in the position we are as musicians in a global pandemic with pretty much everything shut down. You have the actual ability to be almost like you're in college again from a practice standpoint. I've just been going through the Arbans book and trying to play everything, what the suggested metronome marking is and play it absolute perfect before I move on to the next one which has been super fun.

Augie (15:56):

I haven't just started at the beginning because there's different sections. So there's the first one which is articulation and the rhythmic session with the syncopation. So I take that as one section then I'll practice whatever out of that section then I'll move to the flexibility slur section and work on how far I can get in that. And then I work onto the preparatory exercise. So you're going through each section.

Andrew (16:19):

Let me ask you this, I want to lean on one point of not moving on until it's right. I know that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people but for any trumpet players that might be listening to how you approach that stuff, what does that mean? Because when I'm practicing Arbans, if I'm really paying attention and I'm not just trying to get some muscle weight lifting done, that either means finding it obviously super slow. Recording myself a lot. But then at some point you go, I'm not sure I'm going to get this any better. I got to move on here. What does that really mean nuts and bolts to not stop until it's right?

Augie (16:59):

Yeah. I mean, obviously to the suggested tempo, if it says 120, then I won't move on until I can play it at that tempo. What I mean by right. It's in tune. I didn't miss any notes. It's musical. The whole thing, would you be happy with that take if it was recorded and played for the whole world to hear it?

Andrew (17:28):

What do you do to check yourself when you're doing that? Especially if you're in the zone, maybe you're on the second hour of that set. How do you hold yourself accountable during that practice?

Augie (17:40):

It's funny you say the second hour of that set. So I only practice in 45 minute increments. I think that's all my brain is really capable because when practicing like that, it's super high focused. Your brain is going to fatigue, your chops are going to fatigue because you're trying to take these itty bitty details and really just turn it the smallest amount. To hold yourself accountable, it's like anything else. You know when you've had too many cookies out of the cookie jar, you know when you're eating crap and you know when you're skipping workouts.

Augie (18:19):

We've been doing this long enough where you know if it's good or not and it's just, are you going to be honest with yourself? The people who are honest with themselves are our heroes, the Wynton Marsalis. The guys who took the time and wouldn't move on until it was right, you know?

Andrew (18:37):

Right. That's been a big part of what I've tried to tell kiddos. Whenever I'm giving a masterclass or a talk to people that are trying to put together the practice habits is that precisely. Why practice it if you're not going to try to get it right?

Augie (18:54):

Yeah. I was teaching a student earlier today and he kept practicing it and playing it wrong. I said, why don't you just slow it down so you can play it right. Because all you're doing is practicing how to play it wrong which is a big thing. It's like, why would you ever... Well, first of all, it's such a waste of time of which we live in New York. There's always a lot going on and you're trying to be as most efficient as possible. When you're putting your apartment together, it's so tiny. Everything has to be in the most perfect spot for the apartment to function in a high capacity. It's the same thing when you're practicing. You just have to be honest with yourself.

Andrew (19:37):

Yeah. You really got to dig in, can't screw around with that.

Augie (19:40):

Yeah.

Andrew (19:40):

I love the tools that we have at our disposal these days to do that. I really wish there was such an immediate means to check yourself back when we were doing our foundational shutting as young people. Because even now I'm taking out my phone every five minutes to, to say to myself, how well did I really play that passage? Let me put this on myself right now and double check.

Augie (20:06):

I had a MiniDisc player, remember those?

Andrew (20:08):

Bro. I've got a bag of MiniDiscs, classic stuff. I don't have any MiniDisc player that works. Do you have one that works?

Augie (20:16):

I lent it to someone and I never got it back.

Andrew (20:20):

You didn't lend it to me. I didn't take it.

Augie (20:21):

No, in college. Someone's like, I really need to record this thing. I was like, oh yeah man. Whatever. And then they probably weren't a thing anymore, iPhone came out. You could record everything on your iPhone or Zoom.

Andrew (20:36):

Well, I had much... I probably had a good 10 years of mini discs stuff before... I mean, I think the iPhone was 2007 and I started college before. Way before it. So I still have piles of MiniDiscs everywhere. That's great. So what do you typically tell young people when they're looking at the same... Or they're after the same trajectory that you have been on perhaps this whole time? Because... I've spent enough time in higher education day in and day out that my opinions are filtered through my eyes of my experience. So even when I try to give kids the most unfiltered view, it's really difficult.

Augie (21:27):

Yeah.

Andrew (21:29):

What do you tell people that are looking for that transition from high school into college?

Augie (21:35):

Well at first come I'm like be cool and probably don't say as much as you think you should. Listen. Listen, listen, listen. I was talking to Lori Frank once and I was on this recording session. I was getting frustrated and I said, "You think I should say something?" She said, "Never pass up the opportunity to say nothing at all." I was like, wow, it's one of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten because there's nothing worse than too many chefs in the kitchen.

Augie (22:20):

You're just never going to go wrong if you listen. Take in your environment, listen practice. Practice more than you think you should. But not just like... It's not just like, oh, I was in the practice room for this amount of time, three hours. You could be there for an hour and accomplish the same amount. Really make your time worth it because as you get older, you're only going to get busier with things that aren't music. So now is you really your time to try and lay that foundation where when you are busier and you have more responsibilities that you're not going to be worried about it because you know you've done the work.

Andrew (23:03):

You know, what's bananas about that point is that it's made often. That's what I was told when I was 18 and going into college. I remember sitting in those masterclasses going, Nope, I'm going to do it different. I'm going to change this. This is not going to be the way it is for me. And of course I was incredibly wrong because everything you just said is the God's honest truth. Actually the pandemic has turned it on its head. That's what has been the silver lining of this incredible tragedy that we're experiencing right now is that when's the last time you had this much time to practice?

Augie (23:51):

Never.

Andrew (23:52):

Never.

Augie (23:52):

Like college. Yeah.

Andrew (23:54):

College, right.

Augie (23:54):

College.

Andrew (23:57):

The second we got into the pandemic, something just hit me and I said, don't screw this up. This could be two weeks, two months, God hope it's not two years. But we're never going to have this opportunity again. And I hope we don't.

Augie (24:14):

Yeah. I agree. I actually took a lot of time off at first. Thinking wow, I'm never going to be able to take this kind of time off where I don't have to worry about getting right back to it. Because I'm gone on vacations or whatever. I went to Italy once and I said, I just got to leave the trumpet at home. It was the first time I really did that. It was two weeks. I was like, I got to clear my head. I got to do this.

Augie (24:44):

I took that same approach for this. I was like, I don't know if it's going to be, like you said, two weeks or two months. I'm not going to rush into anything. I'm not going to automatically just start shedding eight hours a day. I'm actually going to take the time to decompress. And then I think I'll be more successful when I do pick up the trumpet again. I'm going to want to work and it's going to feel fresh.

Andrew (25:08):

Yeah. I had just happened to be at the right precipice to dive incredibly in because right before quarantine hit, I was trying to take every extra minute I could to find a spot to play a couple notes. And then when we finally got the time, I said to myself, oh, this is great. I can play without feeling rushed or working for a good cause. The last 12 years, 15 years of my practice have been like, oh my God, don't screw this up. You got to play those four notes right. The practice went to those four notes instead of trying to make the most beautiful sound fundamentally speaking.

Augie (25:48):

Right. It's interesting. I've explored different things that I wouldn't normally explore. The past six weeks I've just been playing on a three C because I can. I want to know what's that like. Typically what I've done in New York, I'm required to play, lead in a big band or a Broadway or whatever the case may be. It's not set up for that kind of equipment and I'm like, well, what if I just do this? Never going to have the opportunity just to see what happens if I throw in a three C. I'm actually really loving the mouthpiece which is so funny because I don't think I've played the three C since high school.

Augie (26:30):

I've been talking to Vince DiMartino a little bit and other friends like oh man, this is feeling good. They're like, yeah, it's a great mouthpiece. It promotes good habits. I'm just like yeah it does. But now I'm starting to freak out like what's going to happen when I need to play commercial lead trumpet again. What am I going to play because it can't be a three C?

Andrew (26:52):

How often... I don't see you on gigs or the few gigs that we've done together doing a whole lot of costume changes. You don't do that typically when you're on Aladdin, right? You're just playing on your one-piece the entire time.

Augie (27:08):

Yeah. There was a whole thing about when I lost weight, like, God I really just can't find something comfortable on my face anymore. I did the whole gamut of okay, let me try this. You know, the search for the magic mouthpiece when it's... Now thinking back, I was like, man, I probably should have just stuck on whatever I had and just practice my fundamentals again. Not that I ever lose the fundamentals, but it's definitely a different approach to playing them now where you have the time as opposed to I need to warm up so I can play this gig.

Photo by Shervin Lainez

Augie (27:45):

It's a different kind of headset into the fundamentals and which fundamentals are your priority because you want to set yourself up for success for the rest of the day where right now, maybe you could... You're not so worried about what you have to play later that day perhaps. So it's like... It's just a different mindset. But yeah, I'm not someone who typically just switches mouthpieces or does different things on a gig.

Andrew (28:11):

Yeah. I have a hard time with that one when I'm on a rehearsal big band gig. I know that's a great time to try new things and whatnot but when the guys pull out the mouthpiece palette, you have 17 mouthpieces in it. I'm like, I wouldn't even know where to begin with that. I don't even have 17 mouthpieces, much less to bring them to a gig.

Augie (28:30):

Exactly. A guy called me today to order some trumpet books. He has a shop upstate. He goes, if you're ever in the area, let me know. We have the biggest mouthpiece collection. Something about a crazy big mouthpiece collection. He goes, yeah, we calculated that we could do up to 25,000 different combinations of mouthpiece. I was like, I said that actually sounds terrifying to me because I was like that's just like playing with fire right there. It's like... It's crazy.

Andrew (29:06):

I have a lot of trouble with that. I've been playing on my current three C for at least 10 years. Before that I was playing on a Bob Reeves three C that was a Jerry Hayes version or something like that. Before that, I was playing on another three C.

Augie (29:25):

Yeah, exactly.

Andrew (29:25):

I mean, you've given me a couple of your... Warburtons from a couple of years ago.

Augie (29:36):

Yeah. My buddy Tyler sent those to me and I just gave them to you to mess around with.

Andrew (29:41):

They're really difficult to play on.

Augie (29:44):

Yeah. I didn't quite realize how small they are.

Andrew (29:48):

Yeah. I mean, they're small for small mouthpieces.

Augie (29:53):

Yeah. I didn't really realize that when I was... Because I was playing smaller equipment obviously than I am now. So it's like, oh yeah. That was my version of a three C basically.

Andrew (30:06):

What do you go to... When you're playing Aladdin 17 times a week, what is the equipment you're using? I mean, I know you play a bench, but what else?

Augie (30:16):

Yeah, I was playing a Warburton and six M which is equivalent to a Bach seven D maybe, or sometimes I play a five M just depending on what chair I was playing. If I had to play lead probably the six M. Playing third and playing the five M. But now I'm not sure what I'm going to do because the three C feels so good. I'm going to have to re-assess when I go back. I feel like it's made me a much more efficient player again without having to worry about gigs. It's definitely... It was a whole thing when you lose a bunch of weight, it changes your face a little.

Andrew (31:02):

That's... I mean, it really is not a joke. You're not the only person that I've heard had that experience. I mean, I've not lost the way you've lost, but I do feel like it's prepared me differently for not my face in my case but my breathing apparatus is a little different and all the muscles that probably weren't as engaged. I'm just a little bit more aware of.

Augie (31:27):

Yeah.

Andrew (31:28):

Is there a number of how much weight you lost? Because it was a lot.

Augie (31:31):

It's like between 80 and 90 pounds at this point.

Andrew (31:35):

That's such an accomplishment.

Augie (31:37):

Yeah. I mean, now I feel like in quarantine it's starting to creep back on. I feel like it's a little, but just with the holidays and everything like that, I've just told myself, I got to get back on it. Packers are out of the super bowl, out of the playoffs. I don't have to eat wings every week anymore.

Andrew (31:56):

[inaudible 00:31:56].

Augie (31:57):

I know.

Andrew (31:58):

Fucking Tom Brady. I'm going to break something if we start talking about Tom Brady. [inaudible 00:32:03] and your his fans out there, go fuck yourself.

Augie (32:13):

Yeah. Did you see... We'll switch. Did you see Aaron Rogers MVP speech? Did you see that thing? They apparently thanked Jodie foster or something.

Andrew (32:23):

He thanked Jodie Foster and he revealed to the world that he's engaged.

Augie (32:27):

Engaged. But he didn't reveal to who, right? But sources say it's...

Andrew (32:35):

I think they had talked about... They had revealed that they were dating but it was recently also. I think it was before the new year that he said that he was in the relationship and now of course they're engaged.

Augie (32:45):

Yeah. Good for him.

Andrew (32:47):

Yeah. Good for them. So anyway we get... We're bobbing and weaving here but I want to move from your undergraduate at Roosevelt. You got a master's there also?

Augie (32:58):

No, I did my... I went down to Miami for masters and doctorate.

Andrew (33:01):

Oh, that's right. Got you. You picked Miami why?

Augie (33:07):

It was either between Miami and DePaul. I just thought I got a full ride to Miami with a TA. Why not try a new city?

Andrew (33:17):

Sure.

Augie (33:17):

I've done Chicago for four years now. I like this city. Will it be the best thing for my musical growth? Probably not. I'll probably start doing the same things. I was already doing the same things. Club date bands and the same big bands. I just thought here's an opportunity to go live somewhere else and try new things. It was financially a smart move too with getting the full ride and the TA ship.

Andrew (33:48):

You know what I think is especially fantastic about that particular path is I often press upon students to have new experiences. You did that without looking too far into the end game. You have quite a bit of United States metropolitan experience before coming to New York which was... Did you feel like that was going to be the end game no matter what? Like you could go to 17 other cities but you were going to end up here or did you feel like Miami might be the Avenue?

Augie (34:14):

I didn't think about it. I just calmly was like-

Andrew (34:18):

In the moment a little bit then.

Augie (34:19):

Yeah. I'm going to see what happens here. I don't love Miami as a city. It's a great school. It's a great place to go vacation, but it's not the city that I would call home. And I never felt that way the whole time I was there. I loved it. I loved going to school there. I love the experiences I've had there. Some of my best friends are still down there, but it never felt like home. Chicago felt like home. Obviously it's very close to our home of Milwaukee.

Augie (34:52):

And then when I... I actually didn't have a real plan to get up to New York. It just organically went that way. I started subbing on Maria's band and then Allie moved up here to go to Columbia for her master's while I was still down in Miami. She's always wanted to be in New York, far before me. I had never even really thought about it. I'm not that organized or smart. She was up here and I started working on Maria's band and I said, Hey, New York seems like it could be a cool place to be as the next move.

Augie (35:31):

Right out of college, I applied to a teaching gig in Charlotte, which I made... I got through some interviews. I don't know if I made it to the final interview but I was considering that too. Allie she goes, yeah. I live in Charlotte. Why not? But it ended up... I think it happened the way it was supposed to happen. You got to trust the process.

Andrew (35:55):

Yeah of course. I often think about the roads not traveled. When I first met Laura, she had received a really great job, final stage interview in LA. I had just had a few friends that moved to LA and were starting out in that journey. I thought, am I going to move to LA? Is this a good idea for us? My perspective was a little different because I've always been hell bent on being here even when I was in O'Claire. Even though I still loved O'Claire and I love Wisconsin and I love going home, maybe we'll call it home again sometime in our future. But New York was always like, nah, this is the city I have to be in.

Augie (36:40):

Yeah. I mean, now that I'm here, obviously we just bought a place here. We have no intention of leaving. Love New York and the energy and just the way it pushes you.

Andrew (36:52):

One thing I think is interesting is that you didn't have this plan necessarily to end up here. It's not as if you were practicing the last eight years of your education to be a Broadway player, you just happen to be one of the best trumpet players in the country and that worked out for where you were going to be. The paradigm I often see is that students in Wisconsin or various other places in the country, they're like, I'm going to move to New York and I'm going to be a Broadway player.

Augie (37:20):

That such a weird... I shouldn't say weird. It's a much different concept than it used to be. Broadway was never such a sought after gig from my experience of talking to the guys who've been doing it. You didn't ever want a Broadway show. That was the third tier of player. You wanted to go on the tour, he wanted this but now, the way that the industry has changed and everything, they're highly desirable gigs now. I don't think... If you were to ask... I sit next to Don downs in Atlanta who is one of the most unbelievable lead trumpet players.

Augie (38:00):

If you asked Don, hey, were you practicing to be a Broadway trumpet player? He would laugh. Laugh right in your face. He was like, no, I want him to go on the road with Woody. And that's what he did. And then I wanted to do... I was working, he did a lot in Philly, Atlanta city and New York. I mean, he was really busy in all of those places. He would never say, "Oh yeah, I want him to be a Broadway trumpet player." That really wasn't a thing back then. Which is so interesting how it's changed because a lot of... It's not just for trumpet. Woodwind players, they're seriously starting to shed doubles. Maybe they wouldn't have previously shed.

Augie (38:48):

You have to be able to play bassoon now and saxophone. The guy on the Mark Thrasher who plays the [inaudible 00:38:56] Aladdin plays [barry 00:38:58], plays alto, he plays clarinet, he plays flute, bassoon. Those are some crazy... Those aren't the normal doubles that you're going to see in a big band.

Andrew (39:07):

Right.

Augie (39:08):

It's crazy.

Andrew (39:10):

Well, when you came to the city, you didn't have Aladdin already. You worked under that position.

Augie (39:15):

Yeah. I was just subbing on different shows. I was lucky because I had been playing with Maria's band before I got here.

Andrew (39:21):

I was going to say it. Right. That helped the segue into the city.

Augie (39:25):

Yeah. That made it a very smooth transition, which I was extremely fortunate to have.

Andrew (39:32):

It's been Aladdin the whole time.

Augie (39:33):

My own show is Aladdin, yeah. But I subbed on Nice Work If You Can Get It, How To Succeed In Business, Anything Goes, Spider-Man, Porgy and Bess, Priscilla Queen Of The Desert. I subbed on a ton of shows before I got my own chair.

Andrew (39:51):

It's really great to hear those examples because there's only so much room we could put in our bios these days. So a lot of the stuff that we do just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to drop in there.

Augie (40:02):

Right.

Andrew (40:03):

But you've played a ton of shows. You've been on a zillion records that I don't think everybody's aware of just because there's only so many things you can put on your website these days. If you want to go buy a Pit Bull CD you can do that or you can buy Build Your Range and I think you know which one you want people to buy so that's the one we advertise.

Augie (40:23):

It's interesting how when you're young, at least this is my experience and I think you've had a similar experience. When you're young, you just want to play with everybody. And as I get older, I want everyone to play with me. You know what I mean? I don't say that from a egotistical standpoint but you start to assess musically what you really want to do. I'm having the most fun when I'm on stage at Birdland with a quartet and just messing around and having... Bringing a guest artist or two or working on a record with you or two records or... That's when I'm having the most fun. I love the other gigs too.

Augie (41:07):

I love to travel, but at certain point I had committed to I want to do my own thing. I want to make a living doing that because I don't really want to have to rely on anybody else to pay my rent. You know what I mean? Mike Davis told me that, he goes... Because he's great. He's got his whole hip bone. I was doing the book and I was doing different things. I said, "Man, that's so great." He goes, "Yeah." He's like, "You think I want to rely on their phone to ring, that I have to have a Broadway show?" He's like, "That's the icing on the cake." He's like, "You get to do that and do your own thing."

Augie (41:48):

Which I think if I were to go back and tell my younger self, it'd be like, yo, you need to start your own stuff sooner because now we're playing catch up. I'm playing catch up for sure.

Andrew (42:01):

I mean, my musical career has obviously been very different than yours, but that's one piece of advice I wish I would've also taken earlier is that I've been a collaborator at every step of the game and I've loved it. I've honed that skill and I'm good at it. But now, a lot of what I do is really dependent on using that skill. My next project is certainly going to be much more dependent on the actual notes that I play and that I sing and... I'm happy that we have these skills of being in large groups and enjoying that experience of being a good band member but now it's time to flex that other muscle and...

Augie (42:54):

Yeah, you obviously have your heroes that you look up to in the bands. The Dave Lehman's, the Maria Schneider's, the John Pizzarelli. And you're thinking, when you look at those people's careers, when did they start doing their own gigs as leaders? It was definitely when they were 18 or 19. You know what I mean? I do think that it was a different... A bit of a different music layout back then. It was a little... I think it might've been a little easier to... More places to play, more influence from record labels, things like that.

Augie (43:36):

But would Andy Nisley be the guy everyone wants to play with if we would've started that at 1819, would we be on Saturday Night live if you start those things. It's an interesting question and that's why I encourage young people. I was like, listen, you could be the-

Andrew (43:53):

Absolutely.

Augie (43:53):

You could be the next whatever you want. You can be the next Bruno Mars but you have to start something. I think that a lot of people struggle with just the starting of something.

Andrew (44:05):

Bro. That's what I've been talking about. This is the fourth or fifth fireside chat I've had with friends. What's come out of my mouth very often is how do we deal with ignition failure? When you're talking about a new project. The first step in a long journey is literally a first step. If you don't get out there and open that door and make that first step, then you're already toast. You got to just start. It doesn't matter how bad you are. It doesn't... The golden certificate doesn't come for another 10 years, but you got to start somewhere. You got to just start.

Augie (44:49):

How do you get discovered overnight? It takes years.

Andrew (44:52):

Yeah, absolutely. Overnight success.

Augie (44:55):

It's a way different thing now with social media. I look at certain things online I'm like, wow, people are actually posting this. And it's like, what are you going after? Because you want to be popular and viral, that's one thing. But will that last the test of time like the Beatles or whatever the case may be? Or, there's so much more to think about now especially with technology and the devices and social media and the posting. I've seen 8 million posts on how to help algorithms. I'm like just put out good stuff. The algorithms will sort themselves out.

Andrew (45:38):

Man. I was looking through my Insta feed this morning and I saw all this brilliant musicianship. I thought to myself, this is all great. It's inspiring. I'm enjoying listening to these musicians. Some of which we know, some of which I don't. And then I thought, what are they actually doing? These guys actually make a record? Because I've never heard of these people and I know a lot of people. I don't know everybody, but I know enough people to say, "I've never heard anything come of this." And I didn't get into this to make Instagram videos. They're great but if that's your only goal and that's the... If that's your main goal rather, are we actually producing any content?

Andrew (46:23):

Who's making... We got to make some records here. This stuff is great and I'm happy that you've got a hundred thousand Instagram fans but are you actually contributing to the artistic patchwork of our community? A lot of them aren't.

Augie (46:36):

Sure. It's an interesting thought because it's great to have a hundred thousand followers on Instagram but what does that put in your bank account every month? Because you're spending a lot of time making those videos and it's great. Maybe that comes down to when live music returns say, "Hey, look at all these supporters I have on Instagram. I can get these people to come out to my gigs." Now that's a game plan. But I feel like a lot of people go into that just being like, I'm going to post all these things on Instagram and I'm going to do this. I think there needs to be a balance of it all.

Andrew (47:11):

You're right.

Augie (47:12):

I obviously post trumpet videos on Instagram and I would love to build my following. Yeah. 100,000 followers sounds great. But at what cost are we doing this? I had a conversation about-

Andrew (47:23):

Precisely, yeah.

Augie (47:24):

... With Nick Finzer who is one of the hardest working entrepreneurial musicians I know. I said, "Man, how do you do this? How do you post all these things all the time." I was like, "I actually get exhausted looking at your Instagram." Nick and I are great friends. We can have these conversations. He goes, "No, it's a fair honest question." So he put together a little panel of social media. People who have a lot of followers and he goes, the big thing was at what cost are you doing this?

Augie (48:03):

Because I'm not going to sacrifice what I believe in just so I can get a few more followers and things like that. I think we're investing too much into that and not enough into who am I and what is my voice? Because those are the things that actually reach in the deep seas as opposed to just the surface.

Andrew (48:27):

I think some people might be saying to themselves, well, I don't know what my voice is yet. So I think in the meantime you should be working on discovering that voice and doing it through a means that don't involve trying to build your following. You want to find your voice, post a zillion videos on Instagram of your process while you hone what is fundamental to your musical being and then go do it and then use that voice, doing it for the mass follows. Social media fame is bananas to me.

Augie (49:04):

Yeah. Like anything else, it just comes down to balance. I do think it's... Especially for musicians, it's a necessary evil. You have to have a social media presence. If you want success as a musician, 100% think that but don't sell your soul to the devil either.

Andrew (49:22):

Yeah. It's got to be the sprinkles. It can't be the fucking... Can't be the cake.

Augie (49:26):

Yeah. Don't drink the whole bottle. Just take a sip. Well I wish... That's some advice that we could have probably taken during some of those packers games there.

Andrew (49:35):

Oh gosh. I don't know what you're talking about.

Augie (49:45):

All I know is I have a picture of a... I have a picture of a... What is it? Truly or whatever the hard seltzer. You were about a 15 inch knife.

Andrew (49:58):

Yeah. We'll post that in the comments of this blog post.

Augie (50:02):

Yeah.

Andrew (50:02):

At the very end you'll see Augie with a [inaudible 00:50:05] in me with a big knife and probably a very frightened Laura us behind taking a photo.

Augie (50:11):

Yeah. I think Alex Clayton was there thinking, that's not going to end well. At least she's strong enough to carry both of us out of there to the hospital.

Andrew (50:25):

Oh boy. Well, listen, as with a couple of other our dear friends here, I just can't get the whole picture in one sitting with you. So I hope you'll have an opportunity to come back and chat with me again so we can talk even further about this, but I really appreciated your... Knowing a little bit more about your journey before you got to New York. Like I said for all of [inaudible 00:50:59].