Jamie Breiwick

Andrew (00:09):

Welcome to The Point. My name is Andrew Paul, and today we're going to listen to an interview I took from a dear friend, Jamie Breiwick. Jamie's a brilliant trumpet player, composer, arranger, designer, and I love everything he does. This is Jamie.

Andrew (00:29):

What do you got back there? Is that your own Rhodes?

Jamie (00:33):

Yeah. This is getting the basement hooked up a bit.

Andrew (00:36):

Is this where all the magic happens?

Jamie (00:38):

I'm trying to get a little home setup. I've got a few little recording remote things to work on, but I haven't done it a lot.

Andrew (00:55):

Yeah, it's not the most fun work to do.

Jamie (00:58):

Right, right.

Andrew (00:59):

I did some stuff recently for a Glendale friend, actually. He wanted some horn stuff, and it took me forever to get it done because I was like, "Oh, I don't want to do this poorly.” Sorry, Aaron. No, I eventually got it done, but it took a minute or two. I also noticed that your AirPods are called the Nicest Dad Ever's AirPods.

Jamie (01:27):

They are. Yeah. Nathan set them up for me.

Andrew (01:30):

I was going to say, your kid set those up, didn't he?

Jamie (01:32):

He did, yeah.

Andrew (01:35):

Classic.

Jamie (01:36):

Yep. I wouldn't even know how to change the name on there, so he did it. Yeah.

Andrew (01:41):

Well, at least he put something nice, instead of like... [crosstalk 00:01:43]

Jamie (01:43):

Yeah, no, it could have been way worse than that.

Andrew (01:46):

Tell me about Kase man, you just released this tape, right?

Jamie (01:52):

Yeah, it came out January 1st. It's the first technically new thing on the label Bside Recordings, which is another pandemic project. Yeah, released it as a cassette, who knew people had cassette players still. I didn't.

Andrew (02:14):

Are they buying them?

Jamie (02:15):

Yeah. Yeah...[crosstalk 00:02:17]

Andrew (02:16):

No shit.

Jamie (02:16):

We're almost sold out. We only made 50, which isn't a lot but it was there relatively inexpensive to make. They're cool, I actually ended up getting a tape deck just so I could play it. I didn't even have a tape deck. I didn't have a boombox, I didn't have anything to play it on so I got a tape deck. Man, it actually sounds good. My memory of cassettes has faded for sure, but I'm actually really happy with how it sounds.

Jamie (02:48):

They're just kind of cool and nostalgic. People of our age know what tapes are, and my students don't know what they are.

Andrew (02:56):

What do you mean our age motherfucker? I'm 25.

Jamie (03:00):

Right, right. Exactly. You have sort of nostalgia thing that's happening with vinyl and people are into that. It was cool. It was a thing. I think the streaming thing is what it is, but I think to an extent people want a tangible thing that they can hold onto like, "What can I buy? Can I buy an LP?" Actually people want LPs more than anything. It wasn't my idea to do the cassette, it was Ian's idea who is the DJ in the group. He had done a cassette before and he was like, "Oh, we should do this on cassette," and I was like, "Oh really? People want it on cassette?" He's like, "Yeah, we should do a cassette," so we did it on his suggestion and I'm really happy we did it.

Jamie (03:47):

It was a live album, it was a gig we had recorded back in 2019 at Company Brewing in Milwaukee and River West. We kind of whittled it down to four tracks out of the show. I guess it's technically an EP but whatever that means. Technical jargon, it's just an album, four tracks.

Andrew (04:14):

Nice.

Jamie (04:15):

Yeah, the receptions been pretty good and people seem to dig it. I think I've got like 18 left of the tapes.

Andrew (04:25):

That's more records than I've ever sold ever. (Joke)

Jamie (04:29):

Right, yeah. Right. That's the other thing...[crosstalk 00:04:32]

Andrew (04:32):

I'm serious man.

Jamie (04:34):

I've been having this conversation with multiple people. In fact, I just talked with a great trumpet player in Chicago yesterday, we Zoom’d in, Marques Carroll, and he is starting a label of his own as well. We were just talking about this exact topic, "Should I even do CDs?" Back in the day it was like, "You get 1,000." It was just assumed you would just get 1,000 CDs and that's just ridiculous.

Andrew (05:00):

Bro, I've got boxes full of... [crosstalk 00:05:02]

Jamie (05:01):

That's what I mean, everybody does.

Andrew (05:01):

... old CDs.

Jamie (05:06):

Everybody does. The last couple albums I've been kind of whittling it down, "Two albums ago, how few can I do? What's the shortest run?" And we did like 300 of the Lesser Lakes CD. I think we sold most of those but then they need 100 for press anyways. Then the Don Cherry tribute album, that was also 2019, came out in 2019. That was just digital but the label Shifting Paradigm still needed a handful of CDs to ship out for press. I did as few as possible and ended up being just a download as far as what I sold. We did tape for the case one.

Jamie (05:50):

Everyone's feeling it out still, streaming and do people even want CDs anymore? LPs are in demand, a great people buy them but they're still expensive to make. Is it worth it to risk spending a couple thousand dollars on making 200 records if you can't even sell that? I don't know.

Andrew (06:17):

Especially when there's no gigs to sell them at.

Jamie (06:18):

Yeah, especially that. Right. It's been just kind of a lot of thinking about that process and what's worth it. I'm trying not to lose money on anything really.

Andrew (06:31):

Yeah, or at least not to lose too much money.

Jamie (06:36):

Yeah, right. Exactly.

Andrew (06:37):

Break even would be fucking fantastic for any of us.

Jamie (06:45):

Right. Exactly, exactly. As an independent artist, right, right. Just break even.

Andrew (06:46):

How much do you sell the Case tapes for?

Jamie (06:50):

15 bucks, which is... [crosstalk 00:06:52]

Andrew (06:52):

15 bucks? That's amazing.

Jamie (06:53):

Which is with shipping. Yeah, 15. I probably could have done more but 20 bucks.

Andrew (07:02):

You got them all through Bandcamp?

Jamie (07:03):

Yeah, just through Bandcamp, yep.

Andrew (07:05):

Wow, man. That seems like an incredible success. Just selling... [crosstalk 00:07:13]

Jamie (07:12):

I think so. And with no publicity really. It was all us running... marketing wise, again as the first product for Bside, we just kind of did it ourself. I have a couple people I could work with for publicity but this one we just did it. Wanted to get it out there. It is what it is, it's gone pretty well considering.

Andrew (07:43):

Well done.

Jamie (07:43):

Yeah, thank you.

Andrew (07:45):

I got to get on there and buy that. I'm going to do that when we're done here.

Jamie (07:46):

Okay.

Andrew (07:53):

I love buying friends things because it... [crosstalk 00:07:54]

Jamie (07:54):

Do you have a tape player? Do you have a tape player though, that's the thing.

Andrew (07:58):

I got to go on Ebay and buy one of those too.

Jamie (08:01):

Yeah, you can find them pretty cheap.

Andrew (08:03):

You know, it's funny making tapes is what I would do at [inaudible 00:08:08] with fucking TinFoil (band).

Jamie (08:09):

Yeah, you dub them yourself.

Andrew (08:11):

Oh, those were the days man. I remember printing my own album art in Photoshop 3, it was probably then. And then bringing it to school and showing the girl I liked, "Check this out, I'm on a record." I had a good day that day, it worked out pretty well.

Jamie (08:30):

Yeah, that's huge. That's a big deal in high school for sure. I love that process of that too though, it's very personal. It's meaningful because you put the energy into it yourself. That's kind of the idea with this whole thing anyway.

Andrew (08:52):

Kase is you, the DJ, and drummer or keyboard player?

Jamie (08:55):

Bass player.

Andrew (08:56):

Bass player.

Jamie (08:57):

The story behind the band itself, actually the DJ Ian Carroll, he moved to Philly actually. He lives in Philly now so we have a different guy who you know, Jordan Lee, probably. Used to... [crosstalk 00:09:11]

Andrew (09:10):

Yeah, he's great.

Jamie (09:11):

... DJ with The Rusty Ps. He's the programming director of Radio Milwaukee. He's a new guy, Ian was the former student of mine from Maple Dale.

Andrew (09:24):

Oh whoa.

Jamie (09:26):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. As the legend tells, the seventh grade talent show, he was a drummer in my band. He played in the concert band and the jazz band, but the seventh grade talent show rolls around, the middle school talent show, he was in seventh grade. He did a DJ set, I had no idea that he was into DJing at all and he shows up with his table and his turntables, and his crate full of LPs. This is a 12 year old and he does this, in my mind there was a smoke machine, and there might not have been, it was a long time ago. He had thought it all the way through.

Jamie (10:06):

He did this incredible set and everybody was just like, "Did I just see that?" I remember at the end of it, he took the record and he broke it and smashed it. It was a big deal, it was like the Hendrix smashes his guitar at the end of the set. He was kind of a quiet unassuming kid and he did this immensely hyped up DJ set at the middle school talent show. Anyways, I just kept that in mind, I was like, "Man, he is onto something. He's cool." But he played in jazz band, he played drums, he took drum lessons. He was a good drummer too, but then fast forward years later, I would hire him when he was in college. He went to UW Madison, when he was in college I started hiring him to DJ in between sets of mine at shows I was doing.

Jamie (10:55):

I'd have him come in and spin records. But in Madison he was working all the time as a DJ while in school. Every hip hop show that came through Madison he would DJ. He was producing too. In fact the rapper who is on the record, his name is CRASHprez, Michael Penn, he's in Chicago. Ian produced most of his stuff and it's killer, it's really great. Anyways, so I had Ian in mind for something and then one of the other main projects I'm in is called the Lesser Lakes Trio with Devon Drobka and John Christensen. At the time, two years ago Devon, who's a great drummer, became very busy with Chris Porterfield and his band Field Report. They are huge, they're affiliated with [inaudible 00:11:49], Justin Vernon, and their record was out on Verve at the time.

Jamie (11:55):

Devon was touring all over with Field Report. John and I were like, "Man, we got not gigs with Lesser Lakes," so we were just kind of lamenting and brainstorming on ways we could continue making music without Devon just because he was busy at the time. For some reason in the back of my head I always had this idea of a jazz trio or quartet or something without a drummer, but with a DJ replacing the drummer. Immediately that was like, "Hey, let's try it out." John on bass, myself, and then Ian doing the role of the drummer but then he also is really savvy with Ableton Live and sampling and dropping, and cord pads. On top of loops and beats and scratching and all that stuff.

Jamie (12:46):

He was really orchestrating a lot of it and then myself, we would just improvise. We ended up, there's a place in Milwaukee called The Highbury. KK and Lincoln, and Bayview, it's a notorious soccer bar. It's very well known actually as a soccer bar. The owner is a big time music supporter and I think the place opened in 2000, or 2001 I think.

Andrew (13:14):

I remember playing there...[crosstalk 00:13:15]

Jamie (13:15):

Yeah, you probably did. Yeah.

Andrew (13:17):

Shortly after it opened maybe.

Jamie (13:19):

Yeah, I'm sure you did because it was the whole scene from The Nomad and The Estate, all those bands played. All that kind of followed over there. It was really actually a very busy music venue for a while, and he kind of just scaled it back. In this case, and in other times I've done it too, I'd hit Joe up and be like, "Hey, I've got this new project, this new idea, I want to kind of workshop it. Do you think it'd be cool if I could play there once a month or something like that?" When I told him what it was he was super into it because he likes hip hop, jazz, experimental like that, what he likes. He was like, "Yeah, however often you want to play." We ended up doing every other Saturday for about a year and a half, just twice a month and working it out. We just improvised. Nothing is set, there's no tunes, no charts, no arrangements. No preconceived anything.

Jamie (14:14):

The record is the same. We recorded the night of that. Nothing on there is charted out or planned out. Literally it's kind of a joke actually between the three of us, "Okay, you start something." Ian will start something or John will start up a bass line, or I'll start up a little melody line or something and we go from there. That's what the group really is. In the case of the recording, we brought in a keyboard player Scott Currier, and... [crosstalk 00:14:44]

Andrew (14:43):

He's the worst.

Jamie (14:44):

Yeah, I know right. The worst.

Andrew (14:46):

You couldn't find anybody better?

Jamie (14:49):

I know, I know. You probably know him from Eau Claire... [crosstalk 00:14:51]

Andrew (14:50):

I'm just kidding Scott, I love you.

Jamie (14:51):

You know him from Eau Claire right? Did you go to Eau Claire?

Andrew (14:55):

We played a bit up there, yeah.

Jamie (14:57):

Scott's a monster.

Andrew (14:58):

He's fantastic.

Jamie (14:59):

Yeah, he is. And then Tony [inaudible 00:15:01] who's a great tenor player who I met when he was in Chicago. He lives in Madison now but he lived in New York before that for a long time. For a decade or so. He's on tenor and bass clarinet. And then Michael, the rapper CRASHprez is on the whole album also. We just recorded a night, a gig. There's a little bit of editing on it, there's no overdub's or anything or add-on's or anything. There's some moments where it's some edits because some of the songs are 20 minutes long or something. Epic jams.

Andrew (15:42):

I'm laughing because I love it, it reminds me of coming into town and playing with The Chicken.

Jamie (15:46):

Oh yeah, that's the vibe for sure. That's exactly it, yep. Yep. We chopped it down to four tracks and put it on a tape.

Andrew (15:58):

So it's tape only?

Jamie (16:00):

And digital also, you can download it through Bandcamp. And it's on streaming as well, but I don't even want to tell people that. It is on Spotify and Apple Music and Amazon and all that, but it's preferably downloadable from Bandcamp or on cassette.

Andrew (16:18):

Buy the tape.

Jamie (16:19):

Yeah.

Andrew (16:20):

Nice. I got to be honest, I don't think I've heard you play any of this before. Has this been the first time you've released any music of it?

Jamie (16:29):

Of that band? Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew (16:30):

Okay, gotcha.

Jamie (16:32):

There was a couple little maybe iPhone recordings I had put up on SoundCloud for a minute but I pulled them down. This is the first bit of that band that's out there, yeah.

Andrew (16:46):

It's interesting, your design is relatively identifiable these days. Because I see the design of some of your things, I automatically assume that I've heard it because it looks so familiar. I'm like, "Oh, there's that killer album cover or killer color combo that I'm going to rip off for my next album design."

Jamie (17:10):

Oh man, that's nice of you to say.

Andrew (17:14):

I think I've heard that. Yeah man, you're killing it so much in the design stuff right now, you still up to your eyes in that or are you finally saying no to some people?

Jamie (17:23):

No, it's still really busy. I don't say no too often, but I have a little bit. It's busy. I think, initially I was like, "Oh man, with the pandemic I'll be not doing anything," but 2020 was my busiest and most profitable year in eight years of doing design work. Only because I think a lot of people are getting records together. I've had so many album designs, it's insane.

Andrew (17:51):

Quarantine records.

Jamie (17:51):

Yeah that or digital album covers. I've had so many of those which is cool. I understand, I'm doing the same thing myself, "How can I stay creative? How can I stay producing content and keeping stuff out there without being able to do gigs?" I understand that.

Andrew (18:18):

That's why we're here.

Jamie (18:19):

Yeah right, seriously. We're adaptable, that's what we do as musicians. We have to keep creating, keep moving regardless of what else is happening.

Andrew (18:35):

I don't think I'd be the first guy to start a podcast, because I'm typically, despite outward appearances, so introverted. Forcing myself to try this particular medium has so many other fringe benefits because you really have to get to know somebody a little bit before or during one of these things. When you're engaged like this, I'm hearing about all these wonderful things that you're doing, and I was aware of them but hearing about them through you is inspiring to me. I got up and played trumpet for a couple hours this morning, but now I feel like write some music because fucking Jamie's over here being all fucking creative, what am I doing?

Jamie (19:22):

Man, it's a balancing act though. Like you said that, if anything, I've been ignoring the trumpet.

Andrew (19:31):

You could pick it up any old day of the week and sound fantastic.

Jamie (19:34):

That's nice of you to say but it's not true. I have been playing a little bit but with no gigs it's tough. With the little time I have, I'll definitely try... my youngest son number three of four, just started trumpet in school this year. He's been actually making me practice more than anybody because he's getting into it and he's super serious about it. He's like, "Hey dad, let's play," and I'm like, "Okay."

Andrew (20:01):

Yeah, we still have to get that routine session.

Jamie (20:02):

Yeah, we're going to do it. We'll definitely do that.

Andrew (20:09):

[inaudible 00:20:09] starting at me right now.

Jamie (20:11):

Yeah Matt too, sitting right here. But if anything, that's been what's gotten knocked down the totem pole a little bit is the trumpet. Definitely gigs coming back so that will be great, that will be a joyous moment for everybody.

Andrew (20:29):

I'm a little nervous about returning to the normal world because quarantine and COVID is so tragic on so many levels. I want to get out of this. To really discover, I think it's natural to discover all the aspects of COVID. Right now there's the tragedy of what's happened and the tragedy of our response to it, and the tragedy of no work and nothing. There's not buts about it, there's no qualifiers, having said all that it's just incredible pause for all of us that have been looking for time to release fringe projects, or for me it's been remembering what it's like to shed everyday. It's been so long that it's been like, "Oh fuck, I got this gig coming up, I've got to learn these fucking notes," not like, "Let me work on my sound." The last nine months have been like, "Oh, I got nothing else to do except try to make the most beautiful sound out of my trumpet."

Andrew (21:46):

I almost don't want to return to just having to work stuff up for a gig because I know when gigs do return it's going to be, "Oh my God, I got to play that lick. I have to practice that lick only for these two weeks."

Jamie (22:00):

I feel that too, and I'm with you and I agree. Also, I'm a huge introvert. I'm actually very happy just sitting in my basement in front of a computer or being by myself inside my own head writing or whatever. In that regard, pandemic aside, it's forced us to do that but also I've found comfort in it and I'm home every night. [crosstalk 00:22:30]

Andrew (22:30):

Me too.

Jamie (22:30):

I've got four kids, I've got a wife, family. In a weird way, yeah I haven't had any gigs in the last year, and I miss playing, I'm not going to lie. I definitely miss playing and being with my friends and making music with my friends, but I'm totally happy doing this too.

Andrew (22:51):

Me too.

Jamie (22:52):

And fulfilled.

Andrew (22:53):

It's been strange going from... there's the gig aspect of it, there's the work with the friends. But so much of my fringe opportunity that added to my career was based on hanging, getting to know lots of people, just being at a ton of shows, connecting people, connecting shows. Obviously there's none of that right now so a lot of what I did just disappeared. Now I'm like, "I don't want to go back to that, I'd rather just sit at home and practice."

Jamie (23:32):

Right, right.

Andrew (23:36):

I think that point in my life where I went out to see shit shows, just to be at shows, I'm not doing that again.

Jamie (23:41):

Right, right, right.

Andrew (23:44):

You better have something to say in the band stand or I'm not coming out.

Jamie (23:46):

Right, that's a good point. It's a good place to be at too.

Andrew (23:51):

Shit, that makes me feel like I better be saying something on the band stand or stay the fuck home. You know what I mean?

Jamie (23:56):

There you go.

Andrew (23:58):

How many times have I played a gig where I'm like, "All right, I know these seven guys know these 12 standards, let's just get it over with," I never want to play a gig like that again, I want to do everything with intent.

Jamie (24:10):

Oh that's beautiful. I feel that. I'm at that point because I had to get to that point with four kids. I can look back at my personal timeline and be like, "Okay, I have to quit every band I'm in," and anything I'm doing is my own project really unless it works out with my schedule and my families schedule, or it pays a decent amount of money where it's worth it. That's not flight on anybody because I love everything I was doing, I love making music and being out there and running around, it's fun but when it gets to a certain point you're like, "Well, is it worth it for my life situation?"

Jamie (25:00):

I got to a point where I was in all these different bands working, and wedding bands and this and that, and it got to a point where I was like, "Okay, I have to have 100% control of my schedule. I can't be on the whim of somebody else's. If I have to be a rehearsal or something, that's out of my control. I have to just be in 100% control of that part of it." It also feels good too, like we were saying about the design stuff with music too, having to say no to certain things.

Andrew (25:35):

It sucks but it's necessary to grow as an artist. You can't do all things for everybody, it's just impossible.

Jamie (25:39):

Exactly, yep. But the thing that you're so good at though is helping others. You've helped me immensely in so many different ways. I know you have for other people too. That's where I don't view it as say no or whatever immediately, I just got a call for something the other day and one of my former students, it was for a transcription gig or something. I was just upfront, "I don't have time to do that, but so and so would do great. Here's there number." And spin it that way but you're so good at that. You're so good at facilitating and helping others and connecting people. [crosstalk 00:26:19]

Andrew (26:18):

You're very kind, it's fun.

Jamie (26:22):

There is a thing though too about our own ego and not wanting to say no, "Oh man, I've got to line up as many things as I can," to make it look a certain way or something. It's our own ego that makes it hard to do that.

Andrew (26:39):

See, that's what I think quarantine has taught me is because it's been a big pause, it's also been a great equalizer because nobody is working.

Jamie (26:49):

Yeah, you don't feel bad about having to keep up with somebody else, or fill the calendar up as much because you can't. Nobody is.

Andrew (26:57):

Nobody is, but it's also teaching me how important it is to not do that. In fact I had that experience, that feeling this morning because I was like, "Oh right, I'm going to talk to Jamie today, we're going to try to start a podcast and see how this goes," and then I was like, "Oh fuck, wait a minute. I usually don't plan a whole lot on Saturday because that's the time I can chill out for my week. Fuck, should I have done this on a weekday?" Though I'm happy I'm starting, it's just my nature to go, "Okay, I'm going to write down 7,000 names of people I want to talk to, and I'm going to do them all this weekend, it's going to be great." Like, "No, fuck all that, I'll talk to one person every month."

Jamie (27:44):

Yeah, spread it out. Exactly. Make it at your pace and don't kill yourself over it, right.

Andrew (27:50):

But that's our nature though, like you're right.

Jamie (27:53):

Oh yeah.

Andrew (27:54):

"Look at that guy over there, he's working, I have to be working that much."

Jamie (27:58):

I get tremendously restless if I'm not busy. I get crazy in my own skin. I'll just start cleaning shit or something, I feel like I'm supposed to be doing something all the time because I usually am between teaching and family, and music stuff and design stuff. I am running around even in the pandemic, I'm still pretty busy but it's like if I don't have something, I look for something. "What should I be doing? All right, I'll make a record label."

Andrew (28:33):

There's a great quote, "Be careful what you spend your time on because those things turn into habits, turn into years, turn into your life." Be specific with what you spend your time on. We're the kind of people that need to be doing something, but that has to be guided or else you spend your whole life kind of nipping and tucking everybody else's project without ever having created something of substance of your own. That's why it's fantastic to watch these recordings and all this design that you do because it's still your voice. You might be designing records for somebody else, but they're your designs. They're your sounds when you make records, it's good.

Jamie (29:24):

Yeah, I hope so. I hope so, that's the idea at least.

Andrew (29:31):

You don't use the traditional tools when you do design, you don't use Creative Suite, what do you use?

Jamie (29:40):

Man, it's so funny and I'm always embarrassed to even say it. When I started doing it...[crosstalk 00:29:45]

Andrew (29:45):

No, it fucking looks great.

Jamie (29:46):

... I was doing posters for myself. That's how I got into the design world I suppose, was just promoting my own gigs and whatnot or just for myself. I look back at those posters and they're awful. They're hysterical. The first ones I tried to make, and they're literally Google Images. Commonly I did it in Microsoft Word or something.

Andrew (30:20):

Oh boy, I'm sure they still looked great though man, you talk shit about them now but I bet they're great.

Jamie (30:23):

No, no they're not. They're definitely not. They're definitely not. At the time I was teaching in Fox Point and the school computers had a program called Pixelmator which it's so cool, I used it, I still use it. It was on the school computer so it was a very I would say, a lesser Photoshop. It's a very user friendly, it's meant for somebody who doesn't' know anything to jump in and be able to edit photos and stuff. I was just like, "Let me try Pixelmator because it's on my school computer." I just started using that and over time, just got comfortable using that program. Eventually, I just started studying design on my own, getting books on design and checking out things on YouTube and trying to prove myself.

Jamie (31:21):

Like music in a way, I got bitten by it, got interested in it. Over time, it got to the point where people were asking me, "Hey, who made that poster for you for your gig?" And I was like, "Well, I did," they're like, "Oh, can you make me one?" I'm like, "Sure." At first it was just for friends for free. Doing it, doing it, and doing it and then very organically it got to the point where people started asking me and I was like, "I'm actually kind of busy making posters for my friends, but okay I can do one for you for like 20 bucks or something." It was ridiculously cheap because I felt guilty even charging anything because I didn't really know what I was doing.

Jamie (32:10):

Gradually it just turned into a business. It came up in my Facebook timeline, it was eight years ago last week.

Andrew (32:16):

I saw that.

Jamie (32:16):

That I started doing that.

Andrew (32:18):

I can't believe it's only been eight years, it feels like you've been doing this your whole life.

Jamie (32:22):

Right, yeah. In a way too it feels like it's part of me and part of what I do too. It's kind of funny to think about before I did it, I don't really remember not doing it even though it's only been eight years. There were a few people early on that had somewhat of a name, but even at the time, Marquis Hill was one of the first people, actually he may have even still been in Chicago. He was actually, but when he started having me make him stuff. Adam Larson was another one who I know you know Adam. He used me on a bunch of stuff early on and still, I just did his most recent book cover and I think all of his albums I've done at least the one he did on Inner Circle, that was the first one I did of his.

Andrew (33:11):

Yeah, I remember seeing a poster for his, I think for his graduate recital at MSM.

Jamie (33:17):

You probably are the one that maybe connected me with him actually. In hindsight, yeah.

Andrew (33:21):

I told him, "Adam, you're really great, call my buddy Jamie."

Jamie (33:26):

You've done that with me a few times. You'd be like, "I'm going to send you something, I'm going to cover it but it's for someone else." It was really cool of you to do that from both sides, to pay me but also to help a friend out with it too. That was very cool of you.

Andrew (33:46):

A lot of the time people don't...

Jamie (33:49):

They don't know what to do or how to do it.

Andrew (33:50):

They don't know what to do, yeah.

Jamie (33:52):

It's so important, it's so important.

Andrew (33:54):

So important. How many times have you picked up a shitty record and you're like, "I hate to judge a book by it's cover but this looks awful, I'm not going to listen to this."

Jamie (34:02):

Seriously, and honestly it's funny because you and I will just send each other stuff now and then like, "Man, get a load of this. Look how bad this is." I'm not going to say any names or anything but yeah, there's some bad stuff out there. The cover of the record, or the poster for the gig, it's what's going to draw people in immediately. There's so much stuff out there, you've got to cut through somehow. But yeah, now that I think about it, you probably introduced me to Adam too. And then Adam introduced me to Matt Wilson, and I ended up doing a ton of stuff for Matt. A couple records of his and a ton of posters and other things. He's on the Ropeadope thing too which was awesome. [crosstalk 00:34:47]

Andrew (34:46):

Yeah, totally.

Jamie (34:47):

That's how I met Matt. We played a few other gigs together since then too. A lot of these things, and the music world is so small, one person is all you need to connect to 10 more.

Andrew (35:00):

Man, that's a beautiful example I think for students is this little arc that you described where you have this skill that's not playing music, it's this beautiful design you do and how that got you connected with a guy like Matt Wilson, but then you're such a beautiful trumpet player that the opportunity to take the design thing and move it to the music side, you were ready to take advantage of the opportunity because it's not like you gave up all the trumpet stuff to do the design stuff, it was just an addition so that when you had the opportunity to actually play music with some of those fantastic named musicians, that you were able to rise to that level. Not rise to the level, you were always there, but you had the chops to take advantage of the situation.

Andrew (35:59):

I think a lot of people, they look at that side hustle and they either think that that's the only avenue they can spend their time so that when they get to the thing that they've been going after the entire time, they're not ready to take advantage of it.

Jamie (36:16):

Right, that's a good point. I always think of myself in terms of just me, me, and me, but then there's also I'm a teacher full time and that's a big chunk of my energy and time. Thinking about teaching, and how to get better in that and then there's the musician and then there's the designer too, and then obviously not lastly, but my family as well. That takes a big chunk of my time and energy. It's a balancing act.

Andrew (36:47):

It blows my mind these four things that you do.

Jamie (36:50):

It's funny too, because I think about that. I think about it and sometimes I think, "Man, I'm such a hack as a designer and I wish I could spend more time on the trumpet." I get down on myself about it but those people that I deal with in each of those areas, most of them don't know that I do those other three things. If I'm a designer, they're just emailing me out of the blue or hiring me or whatever to do design work for them, they don't know I'm also a full time teacher or a trumpet player, or a family man and likewise in my school world. Even all the people I work with don't realize maybe I've got this design business, and I've got this musician life. And conversely as a musician too, someone calls me for a gig or something, they also might not know that I'm a teacher and a designer and a family... I always feel weird about using that as an excuse. I have, but if someone's pressuring me on a particular design job or something, I'll be like, "Hey man, you know what, I'm also..." I have thrown that out, "I'm a teacher, I've got kids and I'm a musician too." Actually design is probably fourth on the list of, not priority but maybe priority, yeah.

Jamie (38:14):

I feel weird about using that sometimes as an excuse or a crutch.

Andrew (38:19):

Do you feel like it's necessary for you to compartmentalize those four aspects? I always find it music to design is pretty...[crosstalk 00:38:27]

Jamie (38:27):

I'm doing a podcast right now. Yeah, yep. Speaking of.

Andrew (38:36):

Hi. Is that your lovely wife or is that one of your kids?

Jamie (38:37):

It's Jessica, Liza's at dance right now. The timing couldn't have been better for that to happen.

Andrew (38:44):

Yeah right.

Jamie (38:45):

I keep hearing, I'm like, "Not right now." I do feel the need to compartmentalize sometimes, yeah.

Andrew (38:52):

Just for sanity, it's like... [crosstalk 00:38:53]

Jamie (38:53):

For sanity, and I also want to be the best I can be at all of them. There's definitely points at which they all overlap too, obviously music and teaching, and even design. I'll design stuff for school sometimes. As far as in my head, it's like, "Okay, I kind of have to switch one thing off and another thing on." Design for example, if I'm in a mode where I have to work on a project or something, I'm reading about design, I'm checking out YouTube videos or podcasts for that, and likewise for music and teaching too. The same thing, I feel like I have to turn one thing off and turn another thing on when I switch between doing different things.

Andrew (39:43):

What's the next big thing on your plate?

Jamie (39:47):

Well, the Ropeadope album.

Andrew (39:49):

Yeah, can't wait to get that cooking.

Jamie (39:51):

Get that one going, I'm super stoked about that. That's the next thing probably. But also I've got a few other smaller little remote projects I've been starting to work on too since the pandemic and not being able to perform a gig or whatever. There's actually an album I'm working on with a friend of mine from high school. We went to high school together and he is a great musician, he lives in [inaudible 00:40:20] but we went to school together, UWM, Jay Mollerskov. He plays the guitar and he's also a brilliant electronic musician. He does these incredible compositions with analog sense. I don't know what it is, the things with the plugs, it's this crazy stuff.

Jamie (40:43):

We're doing a record where I'm actually sending him trumpet sounds, and he's just messing with them through the analog sense and making beats and patterns and stuff out of that. Out of the trumpet sounds, and then he sends them back to me and then I improvise over that again, and we're just kind of layering it back and forth, adding more and more stuff. We're going to do an album of that.

Andrew (41:04):

I didn't know Jay did that kind of stuff, I only know him as a guitarist.

Jamie (41:07):

Yeah, he's wild man. He's got a whole room in his house filled with these analog things. I don't know if it's more of a recent thing, that he's gotten into. He was a composition major in college and got way into electro-acoustic things and very weird contemporary music and tape loops and all this kind of wild stuff. I think he's always been interested in it. He does it, pre pandemic he was doing live shows with it and stuff.

Andrew (41:42):

Amazing. Does he do it under his own name or is there another band that he does it?

Jamie (41:44):

Oh yeah, he's got a SoundCloud, I think it's just his name on SoundCloud, Jay Mollerskov.

Andrew (41:46):

Oh I've got to check this out man, nice.

Jamie (41:49):

It's really cool. It's really cool. Even some techno stuff. But he's doing it all with these analog sense and it's killing. We had been talking about doing something together a few years ago, again the pandemic has kind of pushed it on us like, "Hey, why don't we do that now? We can do it remotely, I'll send you some recordings to work with and that back and forth." Jay and I are working on that and then I've got another remote project I'm working on with an old friend named Matt Misner. Matt and I were in a band called Hudson in the mid '90's and late '90's.

Jamie (42:29):

Matt's another one who's an analog sense guy, he's got all the Fender Rhodes, and Wurlitzer and Moog and all that stuff. He's got this crazy old little drum machine, I don't even know what it is, it's not an 808 or anything. He and I are doing a remote thing too. That's different, we're just working on one track right now. That one's maybe a little more involved. Devon's going to play drums on it and maybe have someone else do guitar on it. Just finding little ways to maintain...[crosstalk 00:43:08]

Andrew (43:07):

Maintain the thing.

Jamie (43:14):

I'm going to do this track for so and so or finish this composition or whatever I'm working on.

Andrew (43:20):

How important is your physical setup? I find that I'm very manic about it. I either have to have a perfect setup with the perfect mic, the whole nine yards. Corner the room, the studio, or I bring everything into my bedroom where I'm sitting right now. This is where I play routine everyday, and I throw everything on the bed, I grab a bunch of cables, and I just go.

Jamie (43:53):

Just haphazardly or whatever.

Andrew (43:55):

Right, do you feel like you have to have, "Okay, that's where my keyboard goes, and that's where my trumpet stands. If everything's not in it's right place I can't make any fucking music," or do you just go for it?

Jamie (44:07):

More the latter. Having a space because my house is kind of wild. I'm surprised you didn't hear the dogs barking. There's always something going on and people running around and stuff. Having more of a dedicated space is better for me.

Andrew (44:26):

I suppose, right.

Jamie (44:28):

I didn't even always have that. That's another pandemic thing. We cleaned out the basement a bit and my daughter is very into dance and we created a little dance studio area for her and laid down some hardwood floor, and put up a mirror over in the other corner of the basement, just over there. But then I got a little music studio area here, got the Rhodes, got a computer, got the speakers and a mic and stuff set up. It's just a little corner and I got a music stand here and some papers here. It's just a little workspace. For me, it's more the second thing, having... not that it has to be that way, it helps me to get in the space a little bit better.

Andrew (45:08):

Yeah. It sounds like an extension a little bit of the compartmentalization.

Jamie (45:14):

Yeah.

Andrew (45:15):

Now that you mention it, while I do spread out when I'm getting creative, I also have my design station which is in the other room which I have my Mac. That's where the business takes place. But if I'm going to create something, I kind of like to relax. Really create, not work for hire kind of stuff.

Jamie (45:41):

To get in that mindset, right.

Andrew (45:44):

When I lived a little further up town with Mikey, I had that more in my bedroom. I had an 88 key stuff, I thought I had to have all that big ass shit for writing big band and then I found myself writing most my music on my fucking, let me see if it's sitting here, it's in the other room but my little 23 lap keyboard. I've written big band music on that thing because it's comfortable to sit on the couch while I'm doing it.

Jamie (46:18):

Yeah. Honestly, for my design stuff I do 90% of it sitting in my Lazy Boy on my laptop. It's like 90% of it.

Andrew (46:25):

I like the sound of that.

Jamie (46:30):

Yeah, usually the TVs on, the kids are doing their thing on their phone or whatever next to me. The dogs sitting on the floor next to me.

Andrew (46:39):

Your living room, there's a TV and a couch, and then there's your Lazy Boy, is how it works?

Jamie (46:44):

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, pretty much.

Andrew (46:48):

That's very Wisconsin of you.

Jamie (46:51):

Yep.

Andrew (46:53):

I think about, there's not the space for that kind of shit in most of the apartments that I'm familiar with in the last decade of my life.

Jamie (46:59):

Right, right, right.

Andrew (47:00):

I tried really hard to convince Laura to just put two Lazy Boy's in the living room instead of a couch but she never went for that one. Surprisingly didn't buy that.

Jamie (47:09):

Yeah man, it's very Wisconsin, yeah.

Andrew (47:11):

Is your Lazy Boy only... are you the only person allowed to sit in your Lazy Boy?

Jamie (47:17):

100% right.

Andrew (47:19):

Yeah buddy.

Jamie (47:22):

People try to sit in it, but I'll kick them out. The dog will try to lay in it, and the cat, I'm like, "Nope, you got to go now."

Andrew (47:31):

That's great.

Jamie (47:31):

It's a dad chair. It's a dad chair.

Andrew (47:38):

All right man, give my best to your fam.

Jamie (47:38):

Will do.

Andrew (47:38):

Good to see you brother.

Jamie (47:38):

You too Andy, thanks man.

Andrew (47:39):

Take care, bye-bye.

Jamie (47:40):

You too, bye.

Photo by Leo Mascaro